Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-16-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,894 posts, read 5,887,421 times
Reputation: 2186

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Just as they were chased out of Manhattan, and now increasingly out of more accessable parts of Brooklyn, and Queens, they too have the affordability problem. How long will their parents help them, or they can continue to tolerate room mates....or living in dangerous places with poor schools, once they begin to have kids?

NYC has to have a plan about what they are goi9ng to do with the middle class. Right now its about the destitute govt dependent and the wealthy. Folks here THINK they can survive as landlords if the middle group leaves.
While I agree that rents are very high in NYC, you have to realize that NYC is a global city, and as such it is a great magnet for all kinds of people. People from all over the world and the country come here to set up shop. Would you expect rents to remain the same as demand surges?
This is actually very simple supply and demand economics.

 
Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,468,186 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
All that's going to happen is that people are going to move where they can afford. In another 50 years, the wealthy in NYC will be surrounded by a ring of ghettos.

1. Do you think rich people want to live in a crime riddn mess. No thats what Greenwich is far and one can easily see the hedge fund guys and others still left in NYC heading out there. They did so in the 70s when Corporate Parks began to be developed all over Westchester.

2. The rich need the poor to provide services.; If the poor have to pay Metronorth $10/day to get to work then they be4come more expensive.

3. If you think that Rio is a good role model for NYC (becausde that is what you are describing) you are welcome. Note their murder rate and the violence and the gated communities. That defeats the very essence of NYC.


You know whats funy is I doubt there are many high 6 figure people on this site so eventually they too will be gentrified out, or living in a building with Baby Mamma and her Baby Thugs, whose rent they are paying.
 
Old 04-16-2012, 04:07 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,468,186 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeminas View Post
While I agree that rents are very high in NYC, you have to realize that NYC is a global city, and as such it is a great magnet for all kinds of people. People from all over the world and the country come here to set up shop. Would you expect rents to remain the same as demand surges?
This is actually very simple supply and demand economics.


Eventually a global city will crash if it becomes a city of the ultra rich and the hopeless poor. Paris prior to the aFrench Revolution is an example of this.

No society can be stable without its middle vclass. Middle class people arent going to stick around if they must live crowded because thats all they can afford.


Who is NYC attracting? Immigrants and broke kids. Both arrive with a dream and no cash (look at all the "can I survive inNYC on $60k w/o living in a dangerous neighborhood" questions one gets). The Safety Map being a response to that.

The supply of rich Russians and Brazilians isnt without end.

This city ha stwo problem which will destroy it unless dealt with. An abominable primary/secondary educational system for all but the very bright, and housing increasingly beyond the means of middle class people who demand safety and some quality of life.

Please no response that the educational system vis good and only the dysfunctional abuse it. I have met enough CUNY/SUNY graduates who cant write a proper sentence and whose analytical skills are absent. A survey was reported in Crains where NYCs competitive edge was compared with similar cities. We scored very low on the job readiness of the local laborforce.

These two threats were identified as issues by development planners as they ponder about how long it will be attractive to migrants from elsewhere in the country (more leave than arrive) given that NYC is incapable of producing people with the skills that it needs.
 
Old 04-16-2012, 04:21 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,468,186 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
That is the only reason why I'm as honest as I am because I see these people get suckered into these areas and I truly feel bad for them because they are simply naive and thinking that the people on these forums genuinely want to help them find cheaper affordable places when the reality is far different.

..

Yes these are the people who claim Melrose is becoming safe, yet almost every day Bronx 12 reports a serious shooting. Those "gentrifying" north Brooklyn areas being just as bad. Then they want some kid from small town USA to move in so they can grab his $$$. Eventually after being mugged enough by Baby Mamma and her Baby Thugs, who live on tax dollars so dont need to move as their rfent is paid, they will leave NYC.


We will not talk about how many of these landloards fail to screen their tenants so they the decent ones arent victimized by the criminal ones who live in or near their buildings. Best way to get rid of bums is not to rent to any with a criminal record and to have a no tolerance policy on drug use/sales.
 
Old 04-16-2012, 04:43 PM
 
5,000 posts, read 8,185,783 times
Reputation: 4574
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
Dude, don't listen to Anon. His opinion is bias. He is an African American who does not want his peoples to be displaced via gentrification. He prefers NY to remain "hood" and "ghetto" so that rents can remain cheap and his people can have a roof over their heads. He is obviously trying to convince you not to move to NY because to him, you are young, you are white and you are from out of state. In his eyes, you represent the demographics of people gentrifying NY. He doesn't like gentrifiers. They are a threat to him and his people so don't listen to him. If you want to move here, go right ahead. Don't let him stop you.
Well this seems like a well thought out, reasoned post...
 
Old 04-16-2012, 04:47 PM
 
1,151 posts, read 2,132,773 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Yes these are the people who claim Melrose is becoming safe, yet almost every day Bronx 12 reports a serious shooting. Those "gentrifying" north Brooklyn areas being just as bad. Then they want some kid from small town USA to move in so they can grab his $$$. Eventually after being mugged enough by Baby Mamma and her Baby Thugs, who live on tax dollars so dont need to move as their rfent is paid, they will leave NYC.


We will not talk about how many of these landloards fail to screen their tenants so they the decent ones arent victimized by the criminal ones who live in or near their buildings. Best way to get rid of bums is not to rent to any with a criminal record and to have a no tolerance policy on drug use/sales.
But then the super liberals will complain that ex criminals aren't getting a fair shake! How dare you say the violent felon can't rent in your apartment building!

Look, if people are willing to pay the prices to live in this city, god bless them! Like anything, life goes up and down. It's rich now, but after awhile, there will be rich leaving. Buffalo used to be super rich and is now much more middle class. They didn't need laws and state intervention, the factory industry closed up. They went through some rough periods, now they are constantly listed as a great place to buy a house with a lot there. If people want to pay an arm and a leg to live in the city, go right ahead. When there isn't enough people to babysit their kids then they may leave to places where those services are offered.

You can't look to the government to enact change just because you aren't rich. They aren't going to hand you apartments on the UES with a beamer just because you choose to be middle class.
 
Old 04-16-2012, 05:13 PM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,594,006 times
Reputation: 4314
To be fair, the middle class was actually fleeing in far greater velocity during the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s before the yuppie boom really took off anywhere outside Manhattan below 96st. Back then, it was a school system in shambles, skyrocketing crime, and ever increasing taxes.

Yuppies make a great punching bag becuase they're white and upper class, so no real toes to step on PC wise. The reality is that NYC refuses to make the structural changes needed to make living in the five boroughs as a middle class person more reasonable. If anything, the gentifiers have been the saviors of the city via their tax dollars. Do you think the Chinese laundromat owners and Salvadorian food cart workers alone are going to pay for the subways, NYPD, FDNY, etc on their own? LOLOOOLOLLOL. No offense to them of course, but they can't.

NYC makes it's own bed by willingly laying out the welcome mat for degenerates via it's generous welfare state. It's one thing to have a safety net, it's another to enable whole swaths of society to exist work free. Guiliani, for his faults, hit the nail on the head when he made a "Poverty-Industrial Complex" speech sometime in the early 1990s.

Want to bring back the Middle Class:

Beef up the NYPD and actually pay those guys what they're worth. We have trash cops becuase we pay trash money. And tell the desk jockeys to pick up a 9mm and go find a streetcorner, no reason to have so many cops inside a precient or lazymobile (crusier) not actively patrolling. Tell NYS to uphold minimum sentencing for violent offenders (while at the same time reducing it for non-violent offenders, to shrink the prison system)

Tackle the unions once and for all. We cannot pay for the gold plated pensions and health bennies. I have nothing against a fair wage for govenment workers, but the benefits are killing the City's budget unless the members themselves start chipping in. If it means 2-3 weeks of strikes and shrill screaming, then bring it on. Oh, and privitize the clerial/service jobs within city government. No more 30$/hr secretaries. Lower Buisness and Income taxes sharply and accordingly.

School vouchers... That's right, I said it... If the UFT and the Board of Ed can't get it together there's no reason otherwise bright kids should be sent to the mini prisons (Look at your average NYC school building with the window grills, doesn't it bear some resemblence? And then we wonder why so many eventually end up in the real thing) the average Middle/High School has become. Kids who are troublemakers and hence cannot get into private school can then have the city's resources directed squarely at them both positivley (smaller class sizes, more innovative programs), and harsly (more police, more tough love). Middle class families will gladly stay in the 5 boroughs if they felt they finally had a choice in where to send their kids to school.


Take more responsiblity for the city's growth and infastructure. These peacemeal rezonings and whining about the developers doesn't cut it. I do give Bloomberg credit as his affordable housing plan has been ambitious, however overall the city needs to have a comprehensive plan as to what, where and how growth should occur. Oh, and we need to wrestle back control of the Subway and Buses from the MTA, another totally unaccountable "Public Service Authority" brought to you by the clowns in Albany.
 
 
Old 04-16-2012, 05:35 PM
 
8 posts, read 14,886 times
Reputation: 14
Wow anon,

Thanks again for the judgments. I have never talked to you before in my life and you make the assumption that I

A) Have no experience in NY or a city. (I have lived in NYC before AND I am currently from the South Side of Chicago)
B) Have no means of income. (I have a job LINED up for me in the city already)



Wow.
 
Old 04-16-2012, 05:38 PM
 
8 posts, read 14,886 times
Reputation: 14
And I really don't why you are so intent on me getting a 1100-1300 apartment. What is wrong with a 600-700 apartment if I WANTto live there?

This really isn't anything new. Hell the beat generation. Tons of artists flocking to the city, living in cheap apartments because they can't afford much else. What's the issue?
 
Old 04-16-2012, 05:45 PM
 
5,000 posts, read 8,185,783 times
Reputation: 4574
Quote:
Originally Posted by 490270 View Post
And I really don't why you are so intent on me getting a 1100-1300 apartment. What is wrong with a 600-700 apartment if I WANTto live there?

Well there really is no such thing as a 600-700 dollar apt. I mean, you might be able to find some extremely dreary, run down basement "apt" in a rat hole neighborhood or an area that will take you a very long time to get anywhere will you will most likely want to be.

Otherwise, you're looking at roommates.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top