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What do you guys consider the parameters for working class to be? I think a median income of 50 to 80k is roughly the window for that.
Fifty to eighty thousand per is *not* working class, but middle. At least it should be by any reasonable measurement.
Have said this before, and am doing so again; "working" and "middle" class is a construct. Neither is strictly defined by income.
There are hairdressers, stylists and so forth who make more money per year than half the people actively posting on this board. While their employment (working for wages/performing labor in exchange for income), makes them "working class", their lifestyles are anything but.
As someone mentioned the fictional Archie Bunker like many real life "working class" men owned his own house, his wife didn't work, and generally lived (and still do) a better lifestyle than many renters in NYC who believe they are middle class because they sit behind a desk all day.
Strictly put DSNY, FDNY, NYPD, and other civil servants are "working class" since they exchange labor for income. But again come on out to Staten Island, parts of Brooklyn, Queens, or even Bronx. Again such persons own their homes, have one or more *nice* rides and generally live far better lives than half the people posting on this board as being *not* working class.
Cosmo Castorini may have been just a working class plumber; but he lived in just a nice house as the upper class family he's about to work over.
On a very basic level working class is anyone who relies upon exchange of labor or skills for income. In short any of the vast and various blue and pink collar jobs. That covers a very large group from domestic servants to bus drivers and much more. Blue collar/working class at one time accurately depicted the laboring class. Those without higher education and poor economic futures. That largely changed over the years especially thanks to unions. Maids at union hotels in NYC make almost $70k per year.
If you are paid by the week or bi-weekly and rent your home, basically you're working class.
If you are paid by the week, bi-monthly or even monthly and *own* your home, you're middle class.
If you don't have to work, inherited your home and or assets/property, then you're wealthy.
It really all comes down to ownership of assets and wealth.
When you live in rented housing, live from paycheck to paycheck, your liabilities (debts) exceed any or all assets, then you are poor to "laboring class".
Many who claim, and or even believe they are middle class in NYC area actually are busted poor. They have nil to no assets, live in rented housing and basically their bank accounts are near or empty between pay periods.
There are for sure some white working class neighborhoods in the northern part of Staten Island that seem kind of down and out, barely working class if you ask me.
I think the rest of Staten Island is a combination of working and middle class.
I certainly know working class people there who own homes in Staten Island and work at working class jobs, or are retired from them.
Again, some of you don't have a clue about the Rock.
SI has every class from busted poor to very wealthy. On average however it is the borough with second highest household income after Manhattan (IIRC). So while you do see some busted if not bombed out areas of Port Richmond, West Brighton, New Brighton, Saint George, Arlington, Mariners Harbor, etc.. don't let that fool you.
With very little rental housing SI is mainly a place where people own. In order to do that you need to earn.
Sadly as with everyplace else many people inherit a property and or bought decades ago, but now find they aren't able to keep the place up.
Other thing is just because you see people in a house, don't assume they own. There is plenty of one, two, three or four family rental homes on SI. Areas mentioned above are full of them, including Section 8 and other subsidized housing.
A friend who grew up in West Brighton was shocked to see his old street had turned into busted slum. What was once single family homes where people kept up their properties has turned into lots of Section 8 and other rental not far removed from slumlord category.
Fifty to eighty thousand per is *not* working class, but middle. At least it should be by any reasonable measurement.
Have said this before, and am doing so again; "working" and "middle" class is a construct. Neither is strictly defined by income.
There are hairdressers, stylists and so forth who make more money per year than half the people actively posting on this board. While their employment (working for wages/performing labor in exchange for income), makes them "working class", their lifestyles are anything but.
As someone mentioned the fictional Archie Bunker like many real life "working class" men owned his own house, his wife didn't work, and generally lived (and still do) a better lifestyle than many renters in NYC who believe they are middle class because they sit behind a desk all day.
Strictly put DSNY, FDNY, NYPD, and other civil servants are "working class" since they exchange labor for income. But again come on out to Staten Island, parts of Brooklyn, Queens, or even Bronx. Again such persons own their homes, have one or more *nice* rides and generally live far better lives than half the people posting on this board as being *not* working class.
Cosmo Castorini may have been just a working class plumber; but he lived in just a nice house as the upper class family he's about to work over.
On a very basic level working class is anyone who relies upon exchange of labor or skills for income. In short any of the vast and various blue and pink collar jobs. That covers a very large group from domestic servants to bus drivers and much more. Blue collar/working class at one time accurately depicted the laboring class. Those without higher education and poor economic futures. That largely changed over the years especially thanks to unions. Maids at union hotels in NYC make almost $70k per year.
If you are paid by the week or bi-weekly and rent your home, basically you're working class.
If you are paid by the week, bi-monthly or even monthly and *own* your home, you're middle class.
If you don't have to work, inherited your home and or assets/property, then you're wealthy.
It really all comes down to ownership of assets and wealth.
When you live in rented housing, live from paycheck to paycheck, your liabilities (debts) exceed any or all assets, then you are poor to "laboring class".
Many who claim, and or even believe they are middle class in NYC area actually are busted poor. They have nil to no assets, live in rented housing and basically their bank accounts are near or empty between pay periods.
So much truth in your words posted. A sign of experience.
Growing up most of the White kids I went to school with were anywhere from 3rd to 7th generation NYers from Italy, Ireland or Greece. 75% had working class parents in the trades.
Today from observation they are increasingly Eastern European and only 1st or 2nd generation at best.
A very large portion of working class Italian American home owners have been leaving Queens in droves in the past 25 years or so. Whitestone and Bayside is increasingly Korean , Russian and Arab.
Growing up most of the White kids I went to school with were anywhere from 3rd to 7th generation NYers from Italy, Ireland or Greece. 75% had working class parents in the trades.
Today from observation they are increasingly Eastern European and only 1st or 2nd generation at best.
A very large portion of working class Italian American home owners have been leaving Queens in droves in the past 25 years or so. Whitestone and Bayside is increasingly Korean , Russian and Arab.
Doesn't take much to get Italians moving! *LOL*
They do like to live where there are other Italians, and or at least in same area. Out on SI leaving aside South Shore, the Italian-American presence which once was major from Rosebank going north through New Brighton onto West Brighton and rolling on down to Port Richmond into Mariners Harbor has been dwindling since about the 1990s or so.
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