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Welfare in this city comes in all sorts of forms. Most of us don't know or bother because we take our lumps when things go down and look to ourselves for finding a way out. Take on another job, cut expenses, sell stuff, etc...
Then you have those who are enabled by city and state government to take, take, take. Their lives never seem to improve after each various infusion of taxpayer money. What does happen is a prolonging of the enviable; at which point it could be considered all previous funds spent were pi$$ed down the drain.
Case in point:
"Many in housing court, though, know of manipulative tenants. One tenants’ rights advocate acknowledged that she knew people who, upon receiving a one-shot, ceased paying rent. Numerous people live on income insufficient to keep the marshal away for long in a changing Brooklyn. They cycle in and out of court and get two, three, four one-shots before being denied. Landlords’ lawyers deal with regulars they see every year or two. They inquire about one another’s children, like old friends catching up.
“The service we provide is a prevention tool,” Ms. Infante said. “It’s not a solution.”
There you have it; an official with NYC government admitting handing out money in "one shot deals" not once, but repeatedly makes almost no difference in many case. Worse the taxpayers won't see a dime of that money ever repaid (little of one shot deal funds are), and now thanks to mayor de Boob will be on the hook for even more money for shelter services as these same people move from one dole to another.
"Under Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, significantly more money has been paid out as the program has been marketed more aggressively and caseworkers have been told to stress averting homelessness when they weigh applications."
From your article, the city promotes it.
/thread
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Welfare in this city comes in all sorts of forms. Most of us don't know or bother because we take our lumps when things go down and look to ourselves for finding a way out. Take on another job, cut expenses, sell stuff, etc...
Then you have those who are enabled by city and state government to take, take, take. Their lives never seem to improve after each various infusion of taxpayer money. What does happen is a prolonging of the enviable; at which point it could be considered all previous funds spent were pi$$ed down the drain.
Case in point:
"Many in housing court, though, know of manipulative tenants. One tenants’ rights advocate acknowledged that she knew people who, upon receiving a one-shot, ceased paying rent. Numerous people live on income insufficient to keep the marshal away for long in a changing Brooklyn. They cycle in and out of court and get two, three, four one-shots before being denied. Landlords’ lawyers deal with regulars they see every year or two. They inquire about one another’s children, like old friends catching up.
“The service we provide is a prevention tool,” Ms. Infante said. “It’s not a solution.”
There you have it; an official with NYC government admitting handing out money in "one shot deals" not once, but repeatedly makes almost no difference in many case. Worse the taxpayers won't see a dime of that money ever repaid (little of one shot deal funds are), and now thanks to mayor de Boob will be on the hook for even more money for shelter services as these same people move from one dole to another.
Most people in the city are taking some sort of welfare program. Financial aid I’d a form of welfare a d unless you have rich parents you’re dealing with grants and subsidized student loans. If you’re sending your kids to public schools you’re consumer taxpayer resources. If you’re usibg the MTA you’re consuming taxpayer resources.
Not to mention social security and Medicare are the biggest welfare programs and only the richest old people can do without them. If any of you became unable to work for say a year or two due some sort of injury you’d get on disability. The average person who loses their job does not just get another job. They go online and apply for unemployment.
Yes most people make use of the welfare state at some point and this is true of the nation as a whole,
Most people in the city are taking some sort of welfare program. Financial aid I’d a form of welfare a d unless you have rich parents you’re dealing with grants and subsidized student loans. If you’re sending your kids to public schools you’re consumer taxpayer resources. If you’re usibg the MTA you’re consuming taxpayer resources.
Not to mention social security and Medicare are the biggest welfare programs and only the richest old people can do without them. If any of you became unable to work for say a year or two due some sort of injury you’d get on disability. The average person who loses their job does not just get another job. They go online and apply for unemployment.
Yes most people make use of the welfare state at some point and this is true of the nation as a whole,
I agree with you barring a deeper explanation.
When working as designed, Social Security and Medicare run like finely tuned engines.
It has been this way for almost 40 years upon inception.
Social Security is the most "Vanilla" annuity one can invest. Money is removed from your paycheck today and
returned to you tomorrow.
I am speaking for those who invested their entire lives into this program not the losers you are referring too
that take advantage, never invest a dime, but know how to suck it dry. I agree with you on that.
Same goes for Medicare.
A person who has honestly worked his entire life can easily have invested over $500,000 dollars into these programs
and justifiably deserves the return when of age. Both programs provide the golden parachute into the twilight of our lives.
Things changed drastically when both programs started to be abused by a team effort of doctors,patients and corrupt people representing these thieves for nothing more than sheer greed.
Those who no longer or never have contributed ( exemption such as spouses ) and continue to suck the system under the many disguises such as faked mental illnesses and physical disabilities ( two fine examples ) should be scrutinized under a microscope and examined on a yearly basis by top professionals. This is outright thievery and destroys the institution that was originally created to protect those who invested their livelyhood.
Welfare in this city comes in all sorts of forms. Most of us don't know or bother because we take our lumps when things go down and look to ourselves for finding a way out. Take on another job, cut expenses, sell stuff, etc...
Then you have those who are enabled by city and state government to take, take, take. Their lives never seem to improve after each various infusion of taxpayer money. What does happen is a prolonging of the enviable; at which point it could be considered all previous funds spent were pi$$ed down the drain.
Case in point:
"Many in housing court, though, know of manipulative tenants. One tenants’ rights advocate acknowledged that she knew people who, upon receiving a one-shot, ceased paying rent. Numerous people live on income insufficient to keep the marshal away for long in a changing Brooklyn. They cycle in and out of court and get two, three, four one-shots before being denied. Landlords’ lawyers deal with regulars they see every year or two. They inquire about one another’s children, like old friends catching up.
“The service we provide is a prevention tool,” Ms. Infante said. “It’s not a solution.”
There you have it; an official with NYC government admitting handing out money in "one shot deals" not once, but repeatedly makes almost no difference in many case. Worse the taxpayers won't see a dime of that money ever repaid (little of one shot deal funds are), and now thanks to mayor de Boob will be on the hook for even more money for shelter services as these same people move from one dole to another.
You're missing the HUUUUUUGGEEEE overarching point here. One of the top things anyone will spend their money on is housing/shelter. NYC housing costs are extremely high. We can argue over how and/or why another day. But it's fact, housing is extremely costly in NYC. Hotshot lawyers and Wall Street billionaires make plenty of money to pay for taxes. They aren't hurting, we all know that.
The problem is the culture business culture. People need to be paid more. And I don't mean from small mom and pop shops. But a much higher minimum wage is needed, especially targeted at large companies/corporations. A hole in the wall, independently-owned boutique/bar/restaurant in the Village should not be required to pay the same minimum wage as a large company such as McDonald's. Start from the bottom and force those types of companies to pay people a livable wage. Next, a massive cultural shift has to occur. Even people that have gone to college and obtained AAs or BAs/BSs struggle to pay rent here. That should not be the case, but companies don't want to pay people with actual degrees and skills enough to live here. For many of the young people moving here, it's possible to survive here with roommates and no kids, and maybe one day leave for a more affordable place. However, for the most impoverished people in the city who might even have some form of higher education, they can't afford to move and they have families to take care of. Often, the family they take care of is not always by choice (sick relative or incarcerated family members because of racist criminal justice policies).
It's easy to say that the poor in NYC rely on the wealthy they deride. But the truth is, without the ultra-wealthy buying up all the real estate and causing rents to skyrocket, I doubt as many people would need social services to just stay alive. Furthermore, we need to consider the decades/centuries-long history of racism in this country that has left entire demographics impoverished till this day, and likely for decades to come. It's impossible to ignore those if you really want to investigate this issue.
One major problem is the lack of quality public education; with better education, the children living in poverty in the city will have better chances of succeeding in the world. Another major issue is the mass incarceration of minorities. Racist policing and criminal justice has led to this. Something as little as smoking marijuana can keep you from ever attaining a respectable job to pay for your family. With a criminal record, it's much harder to get a good job, and it's often downright impossible. This causes people to turn to a life of crime to support their families and it's a vicious cycle that inevitably leads to children being raised in single-parent households. Single-parent households will obviously make less money, because it's only one income. Often, that parent is the mother, and women still tend to earn less money than men even in 2018.
In order to stop spending so much in tax-payer dollars on the poorest residents of NYC, the government must spend more of those taxes on quality public education, retraining police officers, reforming the entire criminal justice system, and probably more issues I can't think of off the top of my head. Additionally, there has to be a push for higher wages in ALL sectors of employment. There is absolutely no reason someone who owns multiple houses, has a personal driver, owns yachts, travels the world, etc. cannot be just slightly less greedy and actually their employees a living wage. Maybe instead of a $20M penthouse in NYC, a $12M beach house in the Hamptons, a $15M winter home in Aspen, and an $8M boat docked off Monaco to be used while staying in the $14M condo they own there, the wealthiest elites of NYC and the country as a whole could spend a little less money on themselves and reinvest the money in the companies they own. That way, their employees could earn more money in their paychecks--a much more dignified method of feeding your family than a government welfare income. These corporate oligarchs seem to forget that the employees work for them; without those janitors and baristas and secretaries in their buildings, their life would not be what it is today.
In order to stop spending so much in tax-payer dollars on the poorest residents of NYC, the government must spend more of those taxes on quality public education, retraining police officers, reforming the entire criminal justice system, and probably more issues I can't think of off the top of my head. Additionally, there has to be a push for higher wages in ALL sectors of employment. There is absolutely no reason someone who owns multiple houses, has a personal driver, owns yachts, travels the world, etc. cannot be just slightly less greedy and actually their employees a living wage. Maybe instead of a $20M penthouse in NYC, a $12M beach house in the Hamptons, a $15M winter home in Aspen, and an $8M boat docked off Monaco to be used while staying in the $14M condo they own there, the wealthiest elites of NYC and the country as a whole could spend a little less money on themselves and reinvest the money in the companies they own. That way, their employees could earn more money in their paychecks--a much more dignified method of feeding your family than a government welfare income. These corporate oligarchs seem to forget that the employees work for them; without those janitors and baristas and secretaries in their buildings, their life would not be what it is today.
Lest not us forget: Someone has to pay to maintain those homes.
It is definitely not the homeowner and unfortunately not a New Yorker.
You're missing the HUUUUUUGGEEEE overarching point here. One of the top things anyone will spend their money on is housing/shelter. NYC housing costs are extremely high. We can argue over how and/or why another day. But it's fact, housing is extremely costly in NYC. Hotshot lawyers and Wall Street billionaires make plenty of money to pay for taxes. They aren't hurting, we all know that.
The problem is the culture business culture. People need to be paid more. And I don't mean from small mom and pop shops. But a much higher minimum wage is needed, especially targeted at large companies/corporations. A hole in the wall, independently-owned boutique/bar/restaurant in the Village should not be required to pay the same minimum wage as a large company such as McDonald's. Start from the bottom and force those types of companies to pay people a livable wage. Next, a massive cultural shift has to occur. Even people that have gone to college and obtained AAs or BAs/BSs struggle to pay rent here. That should not be the case, but companies don't want to pay people with actual degrees and skills enough to live here. For many of the young people moving here, it's possible to survive here with roommates and no kids, and maybe one day leave for a more affordable place. However, for the most impoverished people in the city who might even have some form of higher education, they can't afford to move and they have families to take care of. Often, the family they take care of is not always by choice (sick relative or incarcerated family members because of racist criminal justice policies).
It's easy to say that the poor in NYC rely on the wealthy they deride. But the truth is, without the ultra-wealthy buying up all the real estate and causing rents to skyrocket, I doubt as many people would need social services to just stay alive. Furthermore, we need to consider the decades/centuries-long history of racism in this country that has left entire demographics impoverished till this day, and likely for decades to come. It's impossible to ignore those if you really want to investigate this issue.
One major problem is the lack of quality public education; with better education, the children living in poverty in the city will have better chances of succeeding in the world. Another major issue is the mass incarceration of minorities. Racist policing and criminal justice has led to this. Something as little as smoking marijuana can keep you from ever attaining a respectable job to pay for your family. With a criminal record, it's much harder to get a good job, and it's often downright impossible. This causes people to turn to a life of crime to support their families and it's a vicious cycle that inevitably leads to children being raised in single-parent households. Single-parent households will obviously make less money, because it's only one income. Often, that parent is the mother, and women still tend to earn less money than men even in 2018.
In order to stop spending so much in tax-payer dollars on the poorest residents of NYC, the government must spend more of those taxes on quality public education, retraining police officers, reforming the entire criminal justice system, and probably more issues I can't think of off the top of my head. Additionally, there has to be a push for higher wages in ALL sectors of employment. There is absolutely no reason someone who owns multiple houses, has a personal driver, owns yachts, travels the world, etc. cannot be just slightly less greedy and actually their employees a living wage. Maybe instead of a $20M penthouse in NYC, a $12M beach house in the Hamptons, a $15M winter home in Aspen, and an $8M boat docked off Monaco to be used while staying in the $14M condo they own there, the wealthiest elites of NYC and the country as a whole could spend a little less money on themselves and reinvest the money in the companies they own. That way, their employees could earn more money in their paychecks--a much more dignified method of feeding your family than a government welfare income. These corporate oligarchs seem to forget that the employees work for them; without those janitors and baristas and secretaries in their buildings, their life would not be what it is today.
That was all very nice but it doesn't answer my questions; to wit why is NYC throwing good taxpayer money after bad in giving away "welfare" to people who obviously either are running game and or in the end simply prolonging the enviable.
Spend more tax dollars on public education? Are you kidding me? NYC already spends the most per capita on K-12 education per student than most or all other school systems in this country. And some how, some how it still isn't enough. So your suggestion is to pile on *more* money?
Retrain NYPD for what and how does that remotely affect the fact people are getting money for nothing.
That was all very nice but it doesn't answer my questions; to wit why is NYC throwing good taxpayer money after bad in giving away "welfare" to people who obviously either are running game and or in the end simply prolonging the enviable.
Spend more tax dollars on public education? Are you kidding me? NYC already spends the most per capita on K-12 education per student than most or all other school systems in this country. And some how, some how it still isn't enough. So your suggestion is to pile on *more* money?
Retrain NYPD for what and how does that remotely affect the fact people are getting money for nothing.
Why bother complaining about something you know isn’t going to change anytime soon, if ever?
That was all very nice but it doesn't answer my questions; to wit why is NYC throwing good taxpayer money after bad in giving away "welfare" to people who obviously either are running game and or in the end simply prolonging the enviable.
Spend more tax dollars on public education? Are you kidding me? NYC already spends the most per capita on K-12 education per student than most or all other school systems in this country. And some how, some how it still isn't enough. So your suggestion is to pile on *more* money?
Retrain NYPD for what and how does that remotely affect the fact people are getting money for nothing.
Well first off, let me just say it's "prolonging the inevitable."
Second, what is the inevitable that we're prolonging? Is your solution to let people starve to death on the streets?
Third, where is the data that NYC spends the most per capita on K-12 education per student? Even if it is that high, those resources clearly aren't going to the schools most in need in the most impoverished neighborhoods. Or they're not being used correctly. Having tons of money doesn't solve a problem unless there is a proper plan and procedure in place. But having little money is worse.
Fourth, it's not just K-12. It includes preschool or even daycare for the youngest New Yorkers so that young parents can actually go to school or get a job. It also includes more affordable college.
Fifth, retrain NYPD to not racially profile and not lock up minorities at higher rates. That also has to go along with criminal justice reform at every level, especially in the courtrooms where defendants are taking bad plea deals or given harsher sentences just for being a minority.
You're seriously missing the bigger picture here. This isn't just a story of NYC spending lots of tax money on poor communities that are not benefitting from the social programs. This proves that just throwing money at a problem is NOT the way to fix it. There are numerous underlying reasons why NYC spends so much on social service programs, many of them dating back decades that still permeate into our present society. You DO know the history of redlining and white flight, right? This isn't a problem that can be fixed by throwing money at it. NYC and Americans as a whole need to come together to solve the systemic racism minorities currently face. We also need a spiderweb of intertwined plans throughout numerous government agencies to tackle the issues in NYC and all over impoverished areas. Higher wages, better education, less people locked up, better access to job opportunities, implicit bias trainings, etc.
Also, this isn't an NYC problem. You may think it's a problem of the impoverished NYC communities rebelling against the wealthy who actually support them. However, like I stated, the ultra-wealthy of NYC do not do enough on the front end to avoid the need for such heavy social services. Meanwhile, rural white people in the South and Midwest deride the "coastal elites" and they demonize any increase in taxes, demonize all "liberals," demonize anyone who went to college, demonize immigrants, demonize all people living in big cities that generate the majority of the wealth in this country. If places like NYC, LA, Boston, DC, etc. stopped paying taxes, those rural white Americans would die very quickly without their social services. They are some of the most welfare-reliant people in the country. I don't see poor communities in NYC demonizing those that make a lot of money here. What I do see them begging for is just a chance to succeed. They want livable housing conditions, good education, better policing, better access to jobs, better healthcare, etc. They are smart enough to realize that they need the wealthy in NYC because the city continues expanding economically, and they can at least work in labor/blue-collar positions that in some way benefit from having the wealthy here. But they don't want every neighborhood in all 4 boroughs with adequate public transit to become entirely unaffordable. I've never seen someone in NYC wish that all the wealthy people were gone; they just want a fair chance at living in the place they call home.
Finally, if all the poor people left NYC because the social service programs stopped, who would be the janitors in the fancy Midtown office buildings? Who would drive these rich people in their Ubers? Who could be their house cleaners? Who would be their waiters, bussers, cooks, bartenders, barbacks? Who would stock the shelves at the local Target? Not everyone who received a social service benefit is an unemployed bum. The working poor are far more common than people realize.
Last edited by jessemh431; 12-17-2018 at 06:52 PM..
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