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Old 01-06-2020, 09:33 PM
 
Location: NY
9,654 posts, read 2,736,401 times
Reputation: 6323

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Opinion:
Giving good advise is like spitting into the wind these days.
Success is a result of sacrificing your blood,sweat and tears
in exchange for a few bucks.............nuff said.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:51 AM
 
4,213 posts, read 1,538,400 times
Reputation: 5321
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOORGONG View Post
You should subtract the welfare queens and their nasty offspring from the warhead protection programme. Just sayin'. Who needs them?

Pesky little welfare queens and their children.


We travel single, oh
Maybe we're lucky
But I don't know

With them just let one kid fall down
And seven mothers faint
I guess we're both happy
But maybe, we ain't

People...
People who need people
Are the luckiest people in the world
We're children, needing other children
And yet letting a grown-up pride
Hide all the need inside
Acting more like children than children

Lovers...
Are very special people
They're the luckiest people in the world
With one person
One very special person
A feeling deep in your soul
Says you were half now you're whole
No more hunger and thirst
First be a person who needs people
People who need people
Are the luckiest people in the world

A feeling deep in your soul
Says you were half now you're whole
No more hunger and thirst
First be a person who needs people
People who need people
Are the luckiest people in the world

People by Jule Styne

Sung by Barbra, of course.

One person's "art" or "philosophy" is another person's garbage, sorry :-). I never saw anything profound (or even slightly musically interesting) in that song, and most of Barbra's musical or cinematic output is of no interest or value to me... so, a Barbra citation (or Jule Styne, in the same category of glittery vacuity) doesn't automatically signal meaning or significance.

Of course there are people who matter to me - a human is a social animal, and wants to interact and cooperate with other people. But welfare queens and their worthless offspring do not participate in the cooperative human society in which I participate - thay just hang onto that society and exploit it in every harmful way imaginable. They lack any feature that makes another human being familiar or interesting to me.


Yes, I am aware that I am ADDING (not subtracting - you got that 180 degrees wrong, the way you are getting this whole "social matter" in general) my tax money for welfare queens - the support of welfare queens is ADDED to, not subtracted from, the $12 for the military plane... but I rather wouldn't be adding that. Welfare queens have no function and shouldn't exist. If welfare resources didn't exist to support them, these people would undergo the required behavioral modification soon enough (ie, at the very least, they would not have five kids. That is the least they could do for the society that feeds them, and it is something that IS within their capability. Correct, nobody is guilty of being born poor, but he/she is guilty if he/she brings other people into poverty).

Last edited by elnrgby; 01-07-2020 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Montreal
844 posts, read 317,077 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
One person's "art" or "philosophy" is another person's garbage, sorry :-). I never saw anything profound (or even slightly musically interesting) in that song, and most of Barbra's musical or cinematic output is of no interest or value to me... so, a Barbra citation (or Jule Styne, in the same category of glittery vacuity) doesn't automatically signal meaning or significance.

Of course there are people who matter to me - a human is a social animal, and wants to interact and cooperate with other people. But welfare queens and their worthless offspring do not participate in the cooperative human society in which I participate - thay just hang onto that society and exploit it in every harmful way imaginable. They lack any feature that makes another human being familiar or interesting to me.


Yes, I am aware that I am ADDING (not subtracting - you got that 180 degrees wrong, the way you are getting this whole "social matter" in general) my tax money for welfare queens - the support of welfare queens is ADDED to, not subtracted from, the $12 for the military plane... but I rather wouldn't be adding that. Welfare queens have no function and shouldn't exist. If welfare resources didn't exist to support them, these people would undergo the required behavioral modification soon enough (ie, at the very least, they would not have five kids. That is the least they could do for the society that feeds them, and it is something that IS within their capability. Correct, nobody is guilty of being born poor, but he/she is guilty if he/she brings other people into poverty).



Yes, well you make a point about the worthlessness of humans that resonates with anyone sympathetic to totalitarian ideologies. The Soviets and the Nazis had the same interest in disposing of those who didn't fit into their plans for a better society. Art that didn't fit the bill also had a very limited scope, and would be called degenerate or garbage, or bourgeois and the artists cast out.

You can choose to dehumanize people and choose big weapons of mass annihilation over spending on welfare checks, but that is the way to more misery. The cost of welfare is fractional to military spending.

It may be that one of these days, when you fall off the subway platform, reaching for a fallling cellphone, one of those "worthless offspring" comes down to help you out of there.
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Old 01-07-2020, 09:53 AM
 
4,213 posts, read 1,538,400 times
Reputation: 5321
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOORGONG View Post
Yes, well you make a point about the worthlessness of humans that resonates with anyone sympathetic to totalitarian ideologies. The Soviets and the Nazis had the same interest in disposing of those who didn't fit into their plans for a better society. Art that didn't fit the bill also had a very limited scope, and would be called degenerate or garbage, or bourgeois and the artists cast out.

You can choose to dehumanize people and choose big weapons of mass annihilation over spending on welfare checks, but that is the way to more misery. The cost of welfare is fractional to military spending.

It may be that one of these days, when you fall off the subway platform, reaching for a fallling cellphone, one of those "worthless offspring" comes down to help you out of there.

Oh please. Spare me from your ridiculous Nazi and Soviet exaggerations, and Nazi/Soviet name-calling, and marking for an imaginary Nazi/Soviet witch-hunt. An idea of a civilized society is not what defined either Nazis or Soviets. I am not disposing of anyone - I just learned already as a child and a teenager how to fit into a civilized society, and I think that a civilized society can thrive only if everyone else learns the same, without some people dragging it back into a jungle. Those people should not be encouraged, by considering their behavior somehow okay, or even deserving of compassion.



Of course I am not happy that such a volume of weapons and anti-weapons has to exist in order to prevent someone from gaining an advantage that would allow wiping off the other half of humanity (or all of the humanity at this point, because we would all suffer consequences of nuclear fallout of modern weapons)... but if it weren't for welfare queens creating more offspring than they can't support, and the offspring forever fighting with other equally miserable offspring for meager resources, the issue of arms race would become easier and cheaper to control as well.


Oh, and I never use a phone on the subway (I think I mentioned that I carried my phone in a money belt under clothes. I practically never pull it out in public). I will use it on the subway only if buying a subway ride via phone app becomes the only way to buy a subway ride. And if my phone somehow still fell on subway tracks, I would never reach for it - are you serious?! I do recall people sometimes helping me with things of that general type (as I do help others myself - I just walked a blind person across a traffic intersection the other day), but most people offer that kind of casual minor help - why would I have to depend specifically on a welfare person for it????


PS- I just noticed I made a typo (create more offspring than they can't support), but decided to let it stay, because it somehow emphasizes my point - there are people who truly can't support anything or anybody at all, so "more than they can support" is logically equal to "more than they can't support".

Last edited by elnrgby; 01-07-2020 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:43 AM
 
4,213 posts, read 1,538,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOORGONG View Post
The Soviets and the Nazis had the same interest in disposing of those who didn't fit into their plans for a better society. Art that didn't fit the bill also had a very limited scope, and would be called degenerate or garbage, or bourgeois and the artists cast out.

And if I do not think melodramatic platitudes are a good art, that does not make me a Nazi or Soviet either :-).
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:51 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
9,796 posts, read 4,809,439 times
Reputation: 4413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
I will agree with three kids on that salary you may need some kind of government assistance in some form (whether housing assistance, health insurance, etc.), in NYC.
If one feels that is parenting kids adequately then....ok

I think on that salary you can afford to rent a 1 bedroom or MAYBE a 2 bedroom apartment in an old building in a far-outer borough neighborhood. So your family will be a bit crowded.
Yes, possibly a Russian neighborhood (they tend to be cheaper but still relatively safe).

Can you survive? Sure, lots of New Yorkers do.
But thrive? Enjoy living here?
Not sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
Plenty of far out neighborhoods are on the subway and bus lines
You could certainly do it with two kids. It becomes a bit more difficult with three though, even further out. I grew up with a kid that had a brother. He lived in a two bedroom apartment. Father was the super or something like that. Brothers shared one bedroom.

Fast forward to today... I knew a family on the Upper West Side. Husband and wife and two kids. Household income was maybe $250,000, which sounds like enough, but really isn't. Mother made $120,000 a year at a non-profit, and the father made a bit more, but the rent was north of $5,000 a month, so even with their salary, they sometimes didn't have the fridge stocked when you consider that they had to have money set aside to put two kids through college and their savings as well for retirement, healthcare costs, etc. I don't envy anyone with kids today. The cost of living has increased so much especially here in NYC that you'd need some sort of sweet deal on housing to make it work.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Montreal
844 posts, read 317,077 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Oh, and I never use a phone on the subway (I think I mentioned that I carried my phone in a money belt under clothes. I practically never pull it out in public). I will use it on the subway only if buying a subway ride via phone app becomes the only way to buy a subway ride. And if my phone somehow still fell on subway tracks, I would never reach for it - are you serious?! I do recall people sometimes helping me with things of that general type (as I do help others myself - I just walked a blind person across a traffic intersection the other day), but most people offer that kind of casual minor help - why would I have to depend specifically on a welfare person for it????

You have a limited capacity for abstraction. What makes you think your caretakers in the not too distant future cannot be the children of welfare mothers, one does not preclude the other. But suit your lonely self.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:35 AM
 
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Bill Gates is leaving 99% of his wealth to his charity, and has stated that he will leave each of his kids (of which he has a total of 3) only a minor inheritance that could never lead them to think they don't have to work. Specifically, he is leaving each of his kids only $20 million. Any person, who thinks of himself/herself that he/she is so adult and resourceful that he/she has every moral right to unlimited self-procreation, should ponder Bill for a minute.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:40 AM
 
4,213 posts, read 1,538,400 times
Reputation: 5321
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOORGONG View Post
You have a limited capacity for abstraction. What makes you think your caretakers in the not too distant future cannot be the children of welfare mothers, one does not preclude the other. But suit your lonely self.


Let me add a bit to my reply. First, nothing you say calls for any capacity for abstraction (what you said is that welfare people may perform some simple tasks that could be helpful to me. Expanding the same thought from picking up a cell phone to changing senior diapers does not require abstraction :-). People use that same argument over and over again: we need welfare people because nobody else can change senior diapers, so welfare people are critical to society, we have to import them from Honduras, because there will be a severe social crisis, who will change all those senior diapers?


First, the overwhelming number of seniors die long before they need senior diapers. The number of people in nursing homes is far smaller than the number of people who take care of themselves til they die. Statistically, chances are greater that a senior will never need a nursing jome than he/she will.


Second, welfare people are not the only ones who can do simple tasks (like retrieve phones and change senior diapers). Simple-task jobs are very adaptable to millenial gig economy. Suppose a nursing home gets several applications for an advertised minimum-wage part-time position of a diaper-changer. Some applicants are doing gig supplemental jobs while already working more substantially on something else, and want to supplement their income with a few hours of diaper-changing per week. It is easy enough, does not require special skills, you socialize with grandmas & grandpas while changing diapers during a 3-hour early morning shift, 6 am to 9 am, 21 hours per week or 90 hours per month, which brings extra $1,700 per month. The gig workers have a CPR certificate, and work as self-employed contractors (ie, are not seeking any benefits other than fixed small hourly reimbursement). Other type of applicant is a welfare person who needs a job with full benefits, can change diapers because anyone can do that, but cannot quite communicate b/c doesn't speak English, CPR - que es eso? Soooo... whom are we going to hire for extra help to change diapers during the morning shift ??? :-)


Third, what makes you think that formerly gainfully employed people haven't made other arrangements for their retirement, and do not depend upon Medicaid and minimum-wage diaper-changers?



And while I understand your need to make personal remarks if you have no real arguments, I can surely assure you that I am not lonely .

Last edited by elnrgby; 01-07-2020 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Montreal
844 posts, read 317,077 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
While I understand your need to make personal remarks if you have no real arguments, I can surely assure you that I am not lonely .
You dispelled the possibility of dropping your phone and overreaching and falling on the tracks. You could easily have said that you never take the subway. The argument, invalid to you, is that one doesn't choose his /her savior, at a given moment.

As far as Bill Gates is concerned, you should develop a bit more, it is not clear what you are getting at. You suggest that a mother on welfare should not neave more than 20 million dollars to her offspring upon death?
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