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I don't see what's so admirable about being from the hood to begin with. If I were from there personally, I would be embarassed and I probably wouldn't tell anyone. And I also believe that alot of people "from the hood" tend to pick up several bad habits that make it an uphill battle for them to fit in comfortably and free from the turbulent life style of the nonsense that goes on there.
I work with these populations in NYC as a part of my job (and not as a police officer) and not to sound snobbish, but I can tell you that there is such dispicable behavior in many of these impoverished neighborhoods that if someone actually knew what was going on there besides what they see and hear in music videos and movies...they'de change their minds in a heartbeat about it actually being "cool."
Living in conditions exposed to junkies, thieves, rapists, convicted murderers, rampant mental health disorders, people with 6 children by 5 different men, sky high STD rates and other problems that plague the community does not harden you...it simply socializes you for the worst. This is perhaps the general reason as to why the people living there are stuck in those areas to begin with. If you simply MOVE into the "hood" with a middle class lifetsyle and income you are NOT living this alleged "struggle" nor are you really exposed to it until you become one of the aformentioned. Otherwise, these transplants are simply existing in a virtual reality video game where they can turn the switch off at any time.
As far as I see it, the people who voluntarilly move there and get a kick out of seeing it on a day to day basis are simply no different from someone admiring a painting in an art gallary. They can see the picture, but they're not really in it...if you know what I mean.
Exactly... supanyc hit the nail on the horn. When Henna was fighting with me about what I was saying that was the whole point I was trying to bring out. Here in Bushwick you've had people living here for years because they continue struggling economically and many of them not of choice since the living conditions are poor, and yet you have a bunch of people flocking to this neighborhood for some unexplained reason when there are tons of (cheaper now) places that are much safer and not as dirty, to find. But unfortunately this movement has made investers look at this neighborhood as the new hot spot and so they buy up these buildings and houses and the only people they sell or rent to is... guess who? Thats the only reason why its starting to get the locals. And anyone who fights with me on this simple point cannot say its because they're not a hipster or yuppy because what I am saying shouldn't be considered offensive at all, but rather the truth.
Speaking of the "truth"...I'd prefer that yuppies take over the "hood" rather than the hood to remain as it is or was.
The reason is not unexplained. Bushwick has a large supply of relatively cheap artist-ready work space, such as former warehouses and factories. Also it has good transportation to Manhattan and is close to Williamsburg which is already a center for the arts.
Do you think the artists should say, "Well, I could get affordable space in Bushwick and have good transportation to Manhattan, but hey, there are less fortunate people there who are hispanic and black and I'm white and had a few privileges in my life. So hmmm. I suppose I really should not move to a place that is convenient for me and fits my budget because if too many people like me move there, we will cause displacement. Yes, right, I think I should probably move to Philly or Bridgeport CT instead, where I can get affordable artist work space and can be sure not that many other New Yorkers will follow. That way the only person I inconvenience is myself!!"
Honestly, how many people in Williamsburg are really artists, and how many people move there to be artist? PLEASE. As another thread mentioned, artists are leaving new york, not flocking here. They are lamenting about the same type of displacement that low income people are talking about. And artist have a history of being able to move to neighborhoods and NOT drive prices up and live relatively peacefully with locals-it's not as if many of them get paid much (or anything) to begin with so they generally don't pose as a threat. Maybe I live on an island but in my world art is not a lucrative profession. The people who are rushing to these neighborhoods are **scenesters**. The ones who will live in a dirty diaper if they think it makes them "hip". But you are right about one thing, people with money and privilege never care about who they're stepping on, so I don't know why people bother talking about it as if there will be a historical shift in that respect.
Speaking of the "truth"...I'd prefer that yuppies take over the "hood" rather than the hood to remain as it is or was.
If all or most of the nyc boroughs become manhattanfied, these will be the same people complaining that there is no space for decent middle class folks. The reality is there is a large space between yuppyville and the hood.
Honestly, how many people in Williamsburg are really artists, and how many people move there to be artist? PLEASE. As another thread mentioned, artists are leaving new york, not flocking here. They are lamenting about the same type of displacement that low income people are talking about. And artist have a history of being able to move to neighborhoods and NOT drive prices up and live relatively peacefully with locals-it's not as if many of them get paid much (or anything) to begin with so they generally don't pose as a threat. Maybe I live on an island but in my world art is not a lucrative profession. The people who are rushing to these neighborhoods are **scenesters**. The ones who will live in a dirty diaper if they think it makes them "hip". But you are right about one thing, people with money and privilege never care about who they're stepping on, so I don't know why people bother talking about it as if there will be a historical shift in that respect.
I have no idea how many people in Williamsburg are artists. We were speaking about Bushwick. Williamsburg has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.
And you seem to have missed the comment that I was replying to -- the assertion was that this shift in demographics (hipsters/artists) was happening for an "unexplained" reason. My point is that it is not unexplained. For artists who do not want to leave the city (and there are plenty who don't) Bushwick is a very logical choice.
"PLEASE" read more carefully before replying next time.
I don't see what's so admirable about being from the hood to begin with. If I were from there personally, I would be embarassed and I probably wouldn't tell anyone. And I also believe that alot of people "from the hood" tend to pick up several bad habits that make it an uphill battle for them to fit in comfortably and free from the turbulent life style of the nonsense that goes on there.
I work with these populations in NYC as a part of my job (and not as a police officer) and not to sound snobbish, but I can tell you that there is such dispicable behavior in many of these impoverished neighborhoods that if someone actually knew what was going on there besides what they see and hear in music videos and movies...they'de change their minds in a heartbeat about it actually being "cool."
Living in conditions exposed to junkies, thieves, rapists, convicted murderers, rampant mental health disorders, people with 6 children by 5 different men, sky high STD rates and other problems that plague the community does not harden you...it simply socializes you for the worst..
You really have to consider the source. The same people who pride themselves for liviing in the hood also like wearing pants below their buttocks. A style that is associated with gay rape in prison. So their mentality is already screwed up.
I have no idea how many people in Williamsburg are artists. We were speaking about Bushwick. Williamsburg has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.
And you seem to have missed the comment that I was replying to -- the assertion was that this shift in demographics (hipsters/artists) was happening for an "unexplained" reason. My point is that it is not unexplained. For artists who do not want to leave the city (and there are plenty who don't) Bushwick is a very logical choice.
"PLEASE" read more carefully before replying next time.
Williamsburg actually has quite a bit to do with this conversation (I carefully noted it was brought up earlier in this thread). It's an example of the same "unexplained" migration patterns Bushwick is currently experiencing. My point is, in areas like these (Williamsburg being what Bushwick would be if all goes as expected)-it's hardly some enclave for artists, so how do you explain the presence of the majority of new-comers who are not artist?
You responded to the poster that said "you have a bunch of people flocking to this neighborhood for some unexplained reason" by rattling on about artist as if they have the ability to displace "low income hispanic and black people", and frankly artist generally don't have the financial means to do that and are far less arrogant about their presence in these neighborhoods anyway. Again, even if it were the logical choice for the reasons you've stated, they would not be a population that could independently drive property value up. So who else is it? Trendy wannabes. Perhaps you should reread your own comment, unless I misunderstood the connections you drew from that post.
@ Sobroguys comment about how a good majority of people in the hood are no longer hard but simply act-hard to maintain a front I agree with that 100%. While I dont think that NYC is as safe as some will have you believe or as safe as the statistics claim, for people who are anywhere near or above their 30's and actually experienced the crack epidemic age they'll know that whatever you see nowadays is absolutely nothing compared to back then. That whole staring down someone, or walking around with new kicks and a ice cream sweater costing $300 didnt exist back then. 1) Because people were more broke and 2) it was definitely a more violent time than nowadays. People can wear sneakers without getting robbed or mugged and having to walk home in plastic bags now. People can put on a nice sweater without getting a gun pointed at thier head saying to run your sweater in the cold and having to go home in a T-shirt. Times were way worse back then and its a good thing. I mean there's still problems and with the economically hitting hard we're finally seeing those desperate times affect crime slightly but that whole genuinely hard culture is gone for the most part. I think really the only place that I still see that is Brownsville. I know its a little naive to speak like this but seeing as how this country has so many opportunities and this city is considered the mecca of opportunity its just shocking how there are still places like that so impoverished and crime-ridden that dont seem to be making a turnaround anytime soon.
You really have to consider the source. The same people who pride themselves for liviing in the hood also like wearing pants below their buttocks. A style that is associated with gay rape in prison. So their mentality is already screwed up.
Sagging seems to be a cross cultural phenomenon. I worked with non-urban "skater" type teens and none of them seem to think pulling up their pants is necessary either.
Also the gay-rape reason is an exaggeration. Sagging is definitely a part of prison culture though, and something that transferred into hip hop styles of dressing. It came from the fact that belts are not allowed in prison (or any other materials that can assist in suicide). Gay or not, pants are generally worn loosely in prison. I find the parallels between those who believe they have the moral/cultural high-ground with their hate for sagging pants and the historical hate for zuit suits amusing. Although saggy pants is really unsightly IMO, it's generally stupid and harmless adolescent behavior.
Sagging seems to be a cross cultural phenomenon. I worked with non-urban "skater" type teens and none of them seem to think pulling up their pants is necessary either.
Also the gay-rape reason is an exaggeration. Sagging is definitely a part of prison culture though, and something that transferred into hip hop styles of dressing. It came from the fact that belts are not allowed in prison (or any other materials that can assist in suicide). Gay or not, pants are generally worn loosely in prison. I find the parallels between those who believe they have the moral/cultural high-ground with their hate for sagging pants and the historical hate for zuit suits amusing. Although saggy pants is really unsightly IMO, it's generally stupid and harmless adolescent behavior.
Not really. The no belt rule is fact in prison but the ones who generally wore their pant that way were the younger and weaker prisoners. They are the ones targeted for rape. Many of those former prisoner live life on the "down low and this is one way they non verbally communicate with one another. You will see this in many gay thug adult videos. I'm surprised somethimg that is remotely gay is popular amongst so called masculine thugs.
As far as non-urban white kids copying the style, I don't believe they are even aware of its origins. To them it's something that looks cool from the hip hop videos.
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