Denied For Apartment: No Apparent Reason (Murray: apartments, lease, good credit)

[JasonBourneKipsBay]

Backstory:
Paying 3850/m for a 700 sq ft "alcove studio" place in Kips Bay/Murray Hill?
Small Business Owner, Married, not a kid anymore. No children, one dog.

Finds a place in Brooklyn that is 3br, 2full bath, 1250sq ft + 350 sq ft covered outdoor area + another 200 Sq Ft uncovered.
This place is gorgeous. and its 3700/m 4th stop? on the L train?

The place is brand new, which is a night and day difference from the prewar building in terms of "new car smell" (i can't comment on how well it was built, i'm not in construction).

Ok.

Broker asks for paycheck stubs, credit report, "standard application stuff", etc.. standard stuff. I send via email after seeing the place and saying "i'll take it".

Broker says: "Everything looks great, he responded positively, We're waiting for a day when he'll be around for you to sign the lease and take the keys".

This is a couple weeks before my lease ends (Ended Nov 1st, 2019) So i tell my current management company that I wont be renewing (despite the fact that I hadn't signed anything).

a few days later the following dialogue begins:
Broker: Oh, you forgot to attach your ID.
Me: *Sent ID
Broker: Your wife's ID?
Me: *Sent
Broker: He wants to see your bank statements?
Me: ..... Which one? *1 month of personal and one month of a business account (Despite the fact that i'm looking for a personal residence)
Broker: Can you send the last 12 months bank statements? all of the pages?
Me: What? He has my tax returns, paycheck stubs (or what are otherwise "equity draw checks")
Broker: He just wants you to "prove you have money"
Me: Well... I thought thats what all of that info was for.

So it only goes further and further down the rabbit hole here.. each of these messages are hours apart.. maybe a day in between.. my move date is closing in, I line up an Airbnb just in case it takes longer than the 1st.

Broker: Can you send him 1 years worth of personal banks statements?
Me: I think this is getting a bit intrusive, but ok.
Broker: He says the last time you paid rent was 3 months ago.
Me: Excuse me? are you telling me he went through my personal transactions line by line?
Broker: Do you pay rent or not?
Me: Of course I do, I provided my landlords information!
Broker: Then why such a spotty rent payment history? he want's to know/
Me: Tell him to ask the management company! I pay sometimes with a check, most of the time with their online thing, sometimes with "Zelle", clearly the last time i wrote a check was 3 months ago, but i haven't been late on rent, i'm moving because my lease is up, i thought this was a sure thing?
Broker: It looks like you spend a lot
Me: What do you mean?
Broker: It doesn't matter if you make 200k or a million if you spend 1.5 million

Lets pause for a second here.. I'm now analyzing my own spending habits because someone else is.
The business account has a flurry of activity, but its a high volume business and low margins on product.

but wait? why am i explaining myself?

back to conversation
Broker: He wants you to "show him the money", do you have savings?
Me: Look, this is ridiculous, i clearly make more than 40x the rent, my credit score is 713, 714, 714, here are the "logins" to equifax, and creditkarma? you can log in and read the reports yourself.

(they asked me to send them a copy of my credit reports, i also sent them my username, password, and security question answers to the credit monitoring website i use)

Broker: We're working on it.
Me: Is he going to ask for my first born son next?

Broker: He said "no"
Me: Why?
Broker: He doesn't have to answer why, its his place, he doesn't have to tell you why.
Me: Excuse me? I'm not one to ever play the race card, but i'm not sure whats left, i have "good credit", i make way more than required, i have provided much more than necessary, and he's now scrutinizing my personal spending, so what else is there?
Broker: How dare you insinuate he's racist and play the race card!
Me: I'm not playing the race card, i'm asking "What Else Is There? Why cant i rent the apartment?" i'm running out of reasons the guy would not want to rent to me and my wife.

Broker: Your application was not accepted.
Me: listen, i've never in my life thought about this but i think this is one of those 311 situations.
Broker: How dare you make threats?! and play the race card?! He's a nice man!
Me: Goodbye


6 days later
(at this point i'm in a 1 month AirBnB while i look for another place, i jumped the gun on getting excited about this place, but whatever, i have a month to find something else)

Broker: He wants to meet?
Me: WTF? I have moved on.
Broker: We have been working on convincing him, if it were my place i would rent it to you in a heartbeat.
Me:? When?

I actually stop what i'm doing to go meet this guy, standing in front of the building is an older asian man with paint on his hands and a tape measure. I'm thinking to myself, that this is the type of guy that probably builds all of his buildings by hand.

Me "Hi, I have business, I make money, some customer pay cash, some customer pay card, money in bank some money, money in cash is some money"

Landlord: "Where Cash?"
Me: "in safe! (wait, i just told him i have cash in a safe)

Me: I will give 6 months...
Landlord: No, New Law! Cannot take 6 months!

Me: Ok, I will give her (points to broker) 6 months, and every month she give you 1 month.
(i'm only mirroring his English and simplifying words with him because we need to get to the point)

Landlord: No!, Put Money Lawyer!
Me: Ok!, Perfect! I put money your lawyer, 6 months and your lawyer pay...
Landlord: No! No My Lawyer, Your Lawyer!

Me: Ok! Ok! Yes, I will put money my lawyer, my lawyer will call you.
Landlord: Ok
Me: OK! Thank you

Broker "Ok so i'll follow up with him and let you know what he thinks of you, thank you have a nice day"
Me: ? He just told me to place 6 months rent in advance, with a secure 3rd party, so there's nothing else to talk about.

I would have never dealt with a situation like this if i absolutely didn't feel that the asking rent was Waaay undervalued, and the place was absolutely one of the most unique apartments i've ever seen.

Lawyer sets date to meet, about 4 days later, i text the broker and say "I'm going to put 6 months rent in a trust, and the landlord will have to call them to tell them where to send the check"

Broker: He didn't approve you yet!
Me: ? What was the point of meeting? this was his idea

3 days later
Broker: The landlord said absolutely no, there will be not excuses, i would appreciate if you didn't make threats or blow up my phone
Me: ? Excuse me? He told me to "Put money with my lawyer"


Now.

I applied for the place, i fought for it, i gave up, then the landlord wanted to meet, we managed to communicate "put money with lawyer" as a solution and a few days later its "no" again.

FYI the business bank account had maybe 40k, my personal account, 19k, and I actually had a savings but i wasn't about to send them anymore personal information.

NO criminal record, only debt is a student loan and a car loan that i make on time payments on.
He asked questions, via the broker that went way more into unnecessary detail, like "Why 78k in debt if make so much money" and my response was "part is car, i pay every month + parking garage fee, part is student loan"

They really scrutinized everything and at one point said "He doesn't believe you"
at some point i made a screen recording of me logging into bank accounts and scrolling around,and sending screenshots of debit card payments, zelle transactions, and checks written to my old landlord/management company because sometimes i wrote the rent check from my business account because i couldn't find my personal check on whichever days, these guys grilled me for everything.

The only clear responses i've received are "He doesn't believe you have money" which is stated in a txt message, and "His son looked at it too, he doesn't believe you".

I have screenshots and everything to back up this entire story.

SO.

Is this the time to call 311 and say "I think this guy may be denying me based on race"?

I'm black, if i didn't mention that before.

[94nasupra]

Without reading every thing way to long of a post. I see all the money but 715 credit score. I’d think you’d be risky. 760 and above credit is considered excellent. With all the questions about your spending I think he was worried about this ...


From credit reports direct.

“Late payments (past due 30 days) appear in the credit reports of 29% of people with FICO® Scores of 715.”

“Approximately 9% of consumers with Good FICO® Scores are likely to become seriously delinquent in the future”

[Mr. Ryu]

The landlord wanted a solid tenant. It seems your spending habit and debt scared him. You also have a ****ty broker. He should have stuck up for you a little bit more. They rejected you and then you went back for seconds.

I can understand 2 years of tax records, 3 past pay-stubs, and current savings/investing accounts statements. The personal bank statement request was pretty intrusive. Not sure why they requested it. What about your wife's financials?

In the future, just have those ready and maybe a letter from your old management company stating that you were a good tenant, your rent was paid on time, etc. You should hold your ground where it gets intrusive and push back on the broker. They are countless of brokers.

[JasonBourneKipsBay]

The only reason my credit "appeared to slip" was because another company took over my Student loan, and somewhere along the process it reflected 3 missed payments, when i complained to the company they gave the debt back to the Dept of Ed, so the same loan is listed 3x times with 2 showing pays as agrees and one now 60 days past due for the same loan.

I explained this to them.

Either way I offered him 6 months (or a year's worth) of rent up front placed in a trust account in his name.

He said Ok

then 3 or 4 days later said
No?

My wife doesn't work unfortunately.

[macnyc2003]

I think you dodged a bullet. This landlord sounds like he’s a royal pain in the a$$. The process is way too intrusive. Look elsewhere.

[stormgal]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu

The landlord wanted a solid tenant. It seems your spending habit and debt scared him. You also have a ****ty broker. He should have stuck up for you a little bit more. They rejected you and then you went back for seconds.

I can understand 2 years of tax records, 3 past pay-stubs, and current savings/investing accounts statements. The personal bank statement request was pretty intrusive. Not sure why they requested it. What about your wife's financials?

In the future, just have those ready and maybe a letter from your old management company stating that you were a good tenant, your rent was paid on time, etc. You should hold your ground where it gets intrusive and push back on the broker. They are countless of brokers.

The bold explains it perfectly - especially the last sentence. Anyway, with your credit and earnings, why not just look for something else? The higher your income and credit, the more your options. You don't have to put up with that landlord BS, no matter how nice and unique the apartment is. He's probably using that apartment to play that game with others as well.

[Energystream]

Small business owners likely make landlords nervous. They'd prefer a salaried person because it is a consistent and predictable paycheck. Is there a lot of movement between personal and business accounts? If he is seeing a lot of movement, he probably doesn't want to figure it out, or is too stupid to do so.

[JasonBourneKipsBay]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu

The landlord wanted a solid tenant. It seems your spending habit and debt scared him. You also have a ****ty broker. He should have stuck up for you a little bit more. They rejected you and then you went back for seconds.

I can understand 2 years of tax records, 3 past pay-stubs, and current savings/investing accounts statements. The personal bank statement request was pretty intrusive. Not sure why they requested it. What about your wife's financials?

In the future, just have those ready and maybe a letter from your old management company stating that you were a good tenant, your rent was paid on time, etc. You should hold your ground where it gets intrusive and push back on the broker. They are countless of brokers.

He called the broker back after a few days, and said he would like to meet. (So I assumed that he realized he was being a little too sensitive). We met, I thought it was a great meeting, he said "give money to lawyer", so i scheduled an appointment. 3 days later. "He said no"

?

Also my businesses are fine. In hindsight i would have sent something else, or had the accountant produce something, but i had the time, so i simply submitted what I could download and print quickly.

Who goes through a years worth of personal bank statements line by line? Its not his business how much i pay for porn or parking tickets.

[Mr. Ryu]

Originally Posted by JasonBourneKipsBay

The only reason my credit "appeared to slip" was because another company took over my Student loan, and somewhere along the process it reflected 3 missed payments, when i complained to the company they gave the debt back to the Dept of Ed, so the same loan is listed 3x times with 2 showing pays as agrees and one now 60 days past due for the same loan.

I explained this to them.

Either way I offered him 6 months (or a year's worth) of rent up front placed in a trust account in his name.

He said Ok

then 3 or 4 days later said
No?

My wife doesn't work unfortunately.

Why did you start the new apt search so late? You should have started 3-4 months before the lease expired and had this settled before the current lease expired. Can you go back to the old place for 1 year?

You said "This is a couple weeks before my lease ends (Ended Nov 1st, 2019) So i tell my current management company that I wont be renewing (despite the fact that I hadn't signed anything)."

[shadypinesma]

This is such bull****. I'd happily rent to you.