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They are being described as hate crimes (sometimes), but a spade is not being called a spade.
don't be ridiculous, there has been a huge amount of publicity on hate crimes against Asians as well as a related bill passed
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
A white person engages in violence and the media instantly brings up a white supremacy, systemic racism narrative. A clear picture of white on black or white on any other race hatred is plastered throughout the news.
you would need examples, links to prove this. "Instantly" you vastly exaggerate to attempt political rhetoric
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
The same is not happening here. In fact, I see almost zero stories actually/literally call out the race of the perp in these cases, whereas the same is not true if a perp is white. We hear phrases like the racially-charged "Karen," "Corner store Caroline," and explicit descriptors noting that a perp is "white" if, well, someone white commits a crime against a racial minority
There is no need to "call out "race. An Asian is attacked. They show the suspect in a video.
Do we need the reporter to say "A black man attacked" ? It is redundant in a political way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
We hear phrases like the racially-charged "Karen," "Corner store Caroline," and explicit descriptors noting that a perp is "white" if, well, someone white commits a crime against a racial minority
I agree. The media should not be adopting this racist term "Karen"
and not say a white person did this or that, just the person's name an photo
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
For starters, the media can be honest and state that black supremacists are attacking Asians (and Jews before that) in NYC. That there is a problem with black racially motivated racism in NYC. We are not getting that.
The media should not call every white person that attacks a black person a "white supremacist" if they are not in a white supremacist group or do not have social media interests in white supremacist ideology.
Similarly if some random homeless black person or drug addict attacks an Asian they are not part of "Black Supremacy". The motive may be that they think Asians are disease spreaders. That is racist but it is not a racial superiority concept that particularizes blacks as superior.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
There are Black supremacist groups and white supremist groups but not every racist attack falls under this. For instance that guy who shot up the Asian massage parlors. They said in the news that was not racially motivated or at least they couldn't find such a connection in his background.
You might be able to find some news stories using "white supremacist" wrongly but you would have to link it.
don't be ridiculous, there has been a huge amount of publicity on hate crimes against Asians as well as a related bill passed
On the contrary, it is ridiculous to continue to ignore what is clear before you. I never wrote that there is no publicity about anti Asian hate crimes. I wrote that a spade isn't being called a spade. There isn't merely an issue of anti Asian hate crimes in NYC. No, there is an issue of overwhelmingly black anti Asian hate crimes in NYC. Being general when there is a specific, overrepresented problem (and, again, the media aren't general if a perp is white) is dishonest and hypocritical reporting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbenson
you would need examples, links to prove this. "Instantly" you vastly exaggerate to attempt political rhetoric
-Ahmaud Arbery
-Trayvon Martin
-Sean Bell (NYC specific)
-George Floyd
-any other story that BLM and similar groups take up as part of their "cause."
99.9% of the stories on these issues referenced that the shooter was "white" to support a narrative of systemic racism of whites against blacks, again despite zero evidence to actually support that race played a factor in any of those cases. Heck, in the Trayvon Martin case, the media went out of their way to note that Zimmerman was a "white Hispanic" as a part of their devilish ways.
I've yet to find any story from the mainstream (non-Fox News type) media that reference the race of those attacking Asians in NYC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbenson
There is no need to "call out "race. An Asian is attacked. They show the suspect in a video.
Do we need the reporter to say "A black man attacked" ? It is redundant in a political way.
By that same logic, there is no need to call out race when a black person gets attacked. Yet, the media do so. That is precisely my point. To show racist, double standards in reporting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbenson
I agree. The media should not be adopting this racist term "Karen"
and not say a white person did this or that, just the person's name an photo
That's all I call for. But, until they do so, I'll continue to call the media out for their racist, hypocritical behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbenson
The media should not call every white person that attacks a black person a "white supremacist" if they are not in a white supremacist group or do not have social media interests in white supremacist ideology.
Similarly if some random homeless black person or drug addict attacks an Asian they are not part of "Black Supremacy". The motive may be that they think Asians are disease spreaders. That is racist but it is not a racial superiority concept that particularizes blacks as superior.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
There are Black supremacist groups and white supremist groups but not every racist attack falls under this. For instance that guy who shot up the Asian massage parlors. They said in the news that was not racially motivated or at least they couldn't find such a connection in his background.
You might be able to find some news stories using "white supremacist" wrongly but you would have to link it.
This isn't about two wrongs making a right. This is about consistency and truth in reporting. If you're going to hold one standard, hold it for everyone. Stop treating people differently in reporting on account of their race. That is demeaning and racist of the media and their supporters in this regard.
This isn't about two wrongs making a right. This is about consistency and truth in reporting. If you're going to hold one standard, hold it for everyone. Stop treating people differently in reporting on account of their race. That is demeaning and racist of the media and their supporters in this regard.
that is exactly what it is about. One standard is wrong the other is not.
Yet you are advocating the solution is to do more racialization in the opposite
Instead of being consistent and stop calling things "supremacist" you are saying call some deranged black street person a "black supremacist" that is just prompting more dumbness
I guess this "standard" is why the black on black crime problem in NYC and other places aren't cause for alarm either. But, rather than not perpetrate certain stereotypes, they ensure that people and neighborhoods that actually need help the most continue to suffer. A black boy gunned down in Brownsville isn't a problem for the national media, unless the person who killed the black boy is white. That is an evil policy of reporting and ensures that black people continue to suffer needlessly.
Exactly. (Tried to rep you again but the system didn't let me).
On the contrary, it is ridiculous to continue to ignore what is clear before you. I never wrote that there is no publicity about anti Asian hate crimes. I wrote that a spade isn't being called a spade.
Merriam Webster's dictionary
Spade
spade noun (2)
Definition of spade (Entry 3 of 3)
1a: a black figure that resembles a stylized spearhead on each playing card of one of the four suits
also : a card marked with this figure
2 offensive —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a Black person
__________________________________________________ ___________________
I wonder if you use this outdated saying "call a spade a spade" intentionally to imply black people, if you are intentionally doing that because if someone calls you out about it you can say it was originally not referring to race.
I'm getting the vibe here through that you have intentionally picked that phrase because it is ambiguous
but if anybody gets such a vibe you can act like "you are paranoid you think everything is racist".
Here we are talking about black people and you have chosen to use this old saying which has been sometimes used as derogatory for black people, not so different from "Karen" which you complained about (rightfully).
Again this goes back to two wrongs don't make a right. You are not acting on good faith, instead tit for tat
and that results in endless conflict
1a: a black figure that resembles a stylized spearhead on each playing card of one of the four suits
also : a card marked with this figure
2 offensive —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a Black person
__________________________________________________ ___________________
I wonder if you use this outdated saying "call a spade a spade" intentionally to imply black people, if you are intentionally doing that because if someone calls you out about it you can say it was originally not referring to race.
I'm getting the vibe here through that you have intentionally picked that phrase because it is ambiguous
but if anybody gets such a vibe you can act like "you are paranoid you think everything is racist".
Here we are talking about black people and you have chosen to use this old saying which has been sometimes used as derogatory for black people, not so different from "Karen" which you complained about (rightfully).
Again this goes back to two wrongs don't make a right. You are not acting on good faith, instead tit for tat
and that results in endless conflict
Another #woke attempt to condemn a well-regarded and widely used idiom I see.
From the Free Dictionary (Idioms section):
"call a spade a spade"
"To address or describe the true nature of someone or something, even if it is unpleasant. The term originated from a translation of an ancient Greek phrase, but is considered offensive by somedue to the later use of the word "spade" as a racial slur for a black person."
Far from being outdated, this term has been in continuous use for over 500 years to mean exactly what I bolded above.
Quote:
Case in point, the expression "to call a spade a spade." For almost half a millennium, the phrase has served as a demand to "tell it like it is." It is only in the past century that the phrase began to acquire a negative, racial overtone.
. . .
To be clear, the "spade" in the Erasmus translation has nothing to do with a deck of cards, but rather the gardening tool. In fact, one form of the expression that emerged later was "to call a spade a bloody shovel." The early usages of the word "spade" did not refer to either race or skin color.
. . .
Politicians and commentators have also frequently used the expression. After returning to the United States after World War I, the scholar and civil rights activist W.E.B. Du Bois wrote in his famous 1919 editorial "Returning Soldiers" about the struggles of African-American men:
"We stand again to look America squarely in the face and call a spade a spade. We sing: This country of ours, despite all its better souls have done and dreamed, is yet a shameful land."
That some have used the term "spade" in a racially offensive way does not make the idiom racist, or even the term itself racist. And this is FAR different from Karen, which is exclusively being used to refer to white women. On the other hand, you take an issue with the use of the word "spade," which has been used by some to refer to black people. It hasn't exclusively been used in that context and there is zero to scant evidence to support that the idiom has ever been used in a racist way. The article I referenced from NPR gives a history of how "spade" has been used in a racist manner, but it does not provide anything to support that the idiom has been used in such a way. But I dare you to find one case where "Karen" has not been used to refer to white women. There is absolutely zero comparison here and it is disappointing that you'd even try to go there.
What is it going to be next? Now I can't refer to the card game spades without people questioning my intent
You are acting in bad faith to even try to make such a connection between "Karen," which is explicitly used to refer to white women, and the idiom "call a spade a spade," which does not have an association with race. Again, that "spade" was used by some to refer to black people has zero to do with the idiom. Neither the NPR piece nor anything else I have found actually gives examples of this. Even the idiom dictionary entry I used reports that some view the phrase in a racist manner specifically due to the use of the word "spade" in a racist manner, but the "spade" as used by racists has absolutely zero in common with the "spade" as recognized in the idiom. Hell, you can even look through the NPR piece and read the context in which "spade" has been used to refer to black people, and it has absolutely nothing in common with the idiom.
In any case, I find it odd that you question whether I intended to use it in a racial means when I explicitly told you in this thread why I am using it. And it had absolutely nothing to do with race, but rather being consistent and speaking truth about what is going on
I do like how you've stopped trying to defend your earlier position trying to refute the clear bias in the media reporting on these racist attacks, though. That has been noted.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 05-05-2021 at 07:24 AM..
that is exactly what it is about. One standard is wrong the other is not.
Yet you are advocating the solution is to do more racialization in the opposite
Instead of being consistent and stop calling things "supremacist" you are saying call some deranged black street person a "black supremacist" that is just prompting more dumbness
No, it isn't. If you treat everyone the same in this context, that is the exact opposite of racism/being wrong. It's holding one standard that applies regardless of your race. That is not two wrongs making a right or anything close to it. It is holding a different standard for how we treat people and refer to things on account of race that is wrong and racist.
If media types are going to use the phrase "white supremacist" on account on somebody's race alone--regardless of any evidence of racial intent (and, note, there has been plenty of evidence to support that many of these attacks by blacks against Asians are based on race, and even in this case, the Hate Crimes Unit is investigating. But would you have liked it better if I used the phased "possible black supremacist?")--then the same standard should apply for every similar situation. Giving the excuse of derangement for one set of attacks but not for others is also problematic. Not to mention that there are plenty of deranged people out there. That doesn't mean that they don't have the requisite whereabouts to act in racist ways. Using derangement as an excuse is taking the easy way out, in my opinion, and again shows a lack of consistency on the issue.
On the contrary, it is ridiculous to continue to ignore what is clear before you. I never wrote that there is no publicity about anti Asian hate crimes. I wrote that a spade isn't being called a spade. There isn't merely an issue of anti Asian hate crimes in NYC. No, there is an issue of overwhelmingly black anti Asian hate crimes in NYC. Being general when there is a specific, overrepresented problem (and, again, the media aren't general if a perp is white) is dishonest and hypocritical reporting.
-Ahmaud Arbery
-Trayvon Martin
-Sean Bell (NYC specific)
-George Floyd
-any other story that BLM and similar groups take up as part of their "cause."
99.9% of the stories on these issues referenced that the shooter was "white" to support a narrative of systemic racism of whites against blacks, again despite zero evidence to actually support that race played a factor in any of those cases. Heck, in the Trayvon Martin case, the media went out of their way to note that Zimmerman was a "white Hispanic" as a part of their devilish ways.
I've yet to find any story from the mainstream (non-Fox News type) media that reference the race of those attacking Asians in NYC.
By that same logic, there is no need to call out race when a black person gets attacked. Yet, the media do so. That is precisely my point. To show racist, double standards in reporting.
That's all I call for. But, until they do so, I'll continue to call the media out for their racist, hypocritical behavior.
This isn't about two wrongs making a right. This is about consistency and truth in reporting. If you're going to hold one standard, hold it for everyone. Stop treating people differently in reporting on account of their race. That is demeaning and racist of the media and their supporters in this regard.
Here's one of the main problems with what's going on
That people fail to understand
Because people are more concerned with what they believe or perceive to be true
Rather than pay attention to facts
And/or leaving their emotions out of it (which I'm finding that a lot of people have trouble doing)
It's not anti-Asian hate crime going on here, not at all.
It's crimes being committed against people who are perceived to be Chinese
Not all Asians
Same people on here complaining about the media's inaccuracy, are using the same inaccurate labeling of these crimes that their "beloved" media does, surprise surprise
When people descended from the Indian subcontinent and Siberia start getting attacked, then we can call it anti-Asian hate crimes.
Also, I have a brain. I don't need the media to even get the story right. As long as there's video, I can see for myself who did what, and draw my own conclusions. You don't like the media, stop watching it. I'm tired of getting reminded of how bad of a job the media does reporting (which is subjective anyway). We have enough cognitive skills to come post, but not enough to seek the truth. Seeking the truth is too much work.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Here's one of the main problems with what's going on
That people fail to understand
Because people are more concerned with what they believe or perceive to be true
Rather than pay attention to facts
And/or leaving their emotions out of it (which I'm finding that a lot of people have trouble doing)
It's not anti-Asian hate crime going on here, not at all.
It's crimes being commited against people who are perceived to be Chinese
Not all Asians
Same people on here complaining about the media are using the same incorrect assesment that the media does
When people descended from the Indian subcontinent and Siberia start getting attacked, then we can call it anti-Asian hate crimes.
Also, I have a brain. I don't need the media to even get the story right. As long as there's video, I can see for myself who did what, and draw my own conclusions. You don't like the media, stop watching it. I'm tired of getting reminded of how bad of a job the media does reporting (which is subjective anyway).
I think it goes a little deeper than that as some of the Asians attacked in what appear to be racially motivated attacks are clearly not ethnically Chinese, to include multiple people of Filipino ancestry who were attacked, though that is a fair point as I do think this explains a lot of things.
Moving on, my problem with the media is that they do influence a lot of people and help to greatly shape the national narrative, which is causing great division. Still, I'd have less of a problem with the media if more of them actually said that they supported a particular ideology (like Fox News does). But when multiple news organizations say that they are impartial (but are far from it), it is a big issue as far as I'm concerned. And we've gotten to the point where if you even push back and say there is no evidence of racism, you are called a racist, etc. I get that it isn't a problem for everyone, but I'm not speaking for everyone. Just for myself.
I think it goes a little deeper than that as some of the Asians attacked in what appear to be racially motivated attacks are clearly not ethnically Chinese, to include multiple people of Filipino ancestry who were attacked, though that is a fair point as I do think this explains a lot of things.
Moving on, my problem with the media is that they do influence a lot of people and help to greatly shape the national narrative, which is causing great division. Still, I'd have less of a problem with the media if more of them actually said that they supported a particular ideology (like Fox News does). But when multiple news organizations say that they are impartial (but are far from it), it is a big issue as far as I'm concerned. I get that it isn't a problem for everyone, but I'm not speaking for everyone. Just for myself.
To the bolded in the 1st pgraph, a mentally ill person is not going to assess who's from where, in their mind, looks Chinese enough, and that's that
To the bolded in the 2nd pgraph, average American IQ is 100. The media can't do anything to change that number, no matter how they report the news.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
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