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I find it funny that alarmists today aren't going out of their way to determine who the "multiracial" applicants are in order to increase the black/Latino numbers. My two cousins--black father, Chinee mother--attended or attend Stuyvesant and are under the multiracial category. But, according to the left, they would be black since that's the "dominant" gene
I don't think it would be a terrible thing to reserve say 10-15% for Blacks, Latinos & Native Americans that get the highest test scores for those demographics. The rest of the spots can still go based on highest test scores.
I agree that hard work and studying is absolutely important as this is merit-based but that's ingrained in Asian culture where education is extremely important (cue Tiger moms).
For African Americans, I know that it's ingrained in the culture of Nigerians, I'm not sure about others.
It would be great if everyone valued education as much as Asians but that's simply not the case and until there is a change in their culture, that won't change. One way to have a change in the culture is allocating some spots to under-represented races/ethnicities. Hopefully they get a great education, go to a great university and pass that value of education to their future generations.
At a school like Stuy, people will likely work and study hard since almost all of their peers will study hard. Someone once told me that at most schools, the top 10-20% will always do well, the question is how do the kids in the middle do? Will they be peer-pressured into studying hard or slack off instead?
I don't think it would be a terrible thing to reserve say 10-15% for Blacks, Latinos & Native Americans that get the highest test scores for those demographics. The rest of the spots can still go based on highest test scores.
I agree that hard work and studying is absolutely important as this is merit-based but that's ingrained in Asian culture where education is extremely important (cue Tiger moms).
For African Americans, I know that it's ingrained in the culture of Nigerians, I'm not sure about others.
It would be great if everyone valued education as much as Asians but that's simply not the case and until there is a change in their culture, that won't change. One way to have a change in the culture is allocating some spots to under-represented races/ethnicities. Hopefully they get a great education, go to a great university and pass that value of education to their future generations.
At a school like Stuy, people will likely work and study hard since almost all of their peers will study hard. Someone once told me that at most schools, the top 10-20% will always do well, the question is how do the kids in the middle do? Will they be peer-pressured into studying hard or slack off instead?
They've been using this strategy for more than 40 years. It doesn't work.
Big Bird also made this worse by not pushing the test prep facilities and programs that were meant to aid students from disadvantaged communities.
I don't think changing the system for these schools to accept the top 7% of every school will necessarily be that bad, but I also don't see it doing all that much good. When you leave a very competitive high school, it's generally for very competitive colleges and then very competitive workforce. The important thing is to be prepared, and to me, that preparation needs to start earlier in more formative years. East Asians have a long history and culture of thinking of test-taking as a way to level the economic playing field as it's been something that's been used for hundreds if not thousands of years with imperial exams and the like. It happens to be a pretty good fit for this and for the workforce in some ways.
On the other hand, a lot of the underrepresented peoples in these schools got a a pretty short stick where their culture was pretty disrupted even in terms of basic family life and also at a community level, so it's not going to be ingrained in the same way as centuries of pretty radical suppression could conceivably take a while to readjust as a whole. I think the thinking behind test prep facilities and improving elementary and middle school programs are probably the better ticket. If there were to be change on the high school level, then I think the top 7% of 8th graders isn't a bad idea, but I wonder if it may be more pragmatic both in terms of not having this contentious fight that also requires state legislative changes and in terms of simply having more seats at good schools in general to set up new high schools that use this as the admissions criteria. After all, some of the specialized high schools along with several well-ranked / highly regarded high schools have only come into place within the last two decades. It would seem like focusing on making several new schools with this new criteria as at least a well-supported pilot would make sense to see how it goes.
Yes, parenting. But also, like I say, the schools. They don't tend to live in the neighborhoods with the really crummy schools, do they... I guess it's a chicken and egg thing, but the school I went to, you could have the best parenting and still learn zero zip nada because there's only so much the parents can make up for at the middle school level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabaomb
I don't think it would be a terrible thing to reserve say 10-15% for Blacks, Latinos & Native Americans that get the highest test scores for those demographics. The rest of the spots can still go based on highest test scores.
I agree that hard work and studying is absolutely important as this is merit-based but that's ingrained in Asian culture where education is extremely important (cue Tiger moms).
For African Americans, I know that it's ingrained in the culture of Nigerians, I'm not sure about others.
It would be great if everyone valued education as much as Asians but that's simply not the case and until there is a change in their culture, that won't change. One way to have a change in the culture is allocating some spots to under-represented races/ethnicities. Hopefully they get a great education, go to a great university and pass that value of education to their future generations.
At a school like Stuy, people will likely work and study hard since almost all of their peers will study hard. Someone once told me that at most schools, the top 10-20% will always do well, the question is how do the kids in the middle do? Will they be peer-pressured into studying hard or slack off instead?
That's usually not the outcome. They've done studies on this at Ivy league schools. What ends up happening is thar these kids become jaded and demoralized.
Of course there are rich dumb kids who get admitted based on legacy but I don't think they give a **** whether they can keep up. They always have something to fall back on.
I think they answer is to incentivize behavioral changes at the parental level. That's where 99% of the problem is.
Teacher shaming again. I'm not doubting your story about having the book being thrown at your mother. You should read Up the Down Staircase which was written about NYC public schools in the early 60s. Nothing has changed. Chicken and egg situation? I think not. How many Chinese who have ancestors who worked on the railroads still live in poverty? It's not just the Chinese-Indians, Arabs, Russians, Afro-Caribbeans, Koreans, etc. all came here starting on the bottom. In a generation or two they move to the middle-class. They value education for education's sake. They come from areas where it was a privilege to get an education. Many come from third world countries where attending school was a hardship and an aspiration. The schools are a lot more primitive than ours, yet somehow they succeed. Change the culture and you have changed parenting.
That's usually not the outcome. They've done studies on this at Ivy league schools. What ends up happening is thar these kids become jaded and demoralized.
Of course there are rich dumb kids who get admitted based on legacy but I don't think they give a **** whether they can keep up. They always have something to fall back on.
I think they answer is to incentivize behavioral changes at the parental level. That's where 99% of the problem is.
The other thing may be that the parental behavior might be pretty ingrained or the parents may simply not be that capable of providing for the family while parenting. If that's the case it may actually make more sense to focus on the kid and have the possibility of extended hours and calendar years so that the main influence isn't the parents so much as it is the school. It'll be costly, but it may be less costly on an overall basis if the kid breaks out of a bad cycle.
That's usually not the outcome. They've done studies on this at Ivy league schools. What ends up happening is thar these kids become jaded and demoralized.
Of course there are rich dumb kids who get admitted based on legacy but I don't think they give a **** whether they can keep up. They always have something to fall back on.
I think they answer is to incentivize behavioral changes at the parental level. That's where 99% of the problem is.
I agree. But cultural differences still are pervasive and a big discrepancy for outcomes.
What I found is, blacks and hispanics focus their studying skills on topics that are not conducive towards high grades. They compare and contrast really well, their critical thinking can be exceptional when talking about the better lyrics, sub cultures, sports teams, player and ect. It is just how they apply those skills, and the need to apply those skills towards something you dislike, that is a fundamental difference at the personal level.
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