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Old 04-30-2021, 05:03 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,009 posts, read 39,060,092 times
Reputation: 21046

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
I wasn't knocking you, your explanation was thorough and interesting and likely touched on a few of the reasons why these apps sustain themselves in the market. I still feel that if restaurant owners explained themselves better to the customers who demand these needless services, they might be able to overcome the extra costs they introduce into the transaction.

I agree that a lot of people probably aren't getting the restaurant owners side of the story. I think there are different routes to somewhat remedying this issue, and what's probably key to any potential remedy is having more people understand that there is an issue in the first place.
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:38 PM
 
5,450 posts, read 2,699,999 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
IMHO people have got a lot of GD nerve coming here illegally and making demands, but the woke liberal socialist democrats that run this place cave in every time.

Latest uproar is that many restaurants don't grant app delivery persons access to their bathrooms, so they don't have a place to "go". Restaurants counter these people are employees of DoorDash or whatever, and thus it's not their problem.

Enter several members of city council....

https://www.thecity.nyc/work/2021/4/...-regulate-apps
another article that was linked by the first article:




NYC Food Delivery Workers Band to Demand Better Treatment. Will New York Listen to Los Deliveristas Unidos?
These Indigenous Guatemalan and Mexican workers keep New Yorkers fed during the pandemic. They want fair wages, bathroom access and a place to shelter from the cold. They could be the face of the city’s next labor battle....

the delivery workers who are propping up the restaurant industry say they don’t have any support from the city or the apps they work for, like DoorDash where customers use the app to place orders from restaurants, or Relay, which connects restaurants to couriers....

While the pay structures are largely a mystery to the public, couriers in Manhattan say that DoorDash pays roughly $4 a delivery, plus tips. According to the company, “Dashers” are paid between $2 and $10 a delivery depending on several factors, including time and distance.

“Nationally, Dashers earn over $22 per hour they’re on a job, including tips — and even more than that in New York City,” said Campbell Matthews, a company spokesperson.

Meanwhile, workers say Relay pays them $11 an hour, plus tips. But hours, they note, have been cut from 38 to 40 a week, to around 33.
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:49 PM
 
1,034 posts, read 442,978 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
No, it doesn't speak volumes to me. There are certain limits on how much power city council has to legislate over things and that includes employment classification as I'm not sure what power is within the city council to change that so there's first the legal side of things and what power there is--I remember this conversation stemming from Uber/Lyft and that the city council wanted state action which probably means it needs to be done on the state level. I may be wrong on this in general or potentially specific to delivery app gigs but somehow not rideshare gigs. I'm happy to learn more.

You can potentially vote for or against legislating app delivery people get bathroom access and have that decoupled from what you think the employment classification status should be. It's possible that those who are more sympathetic to delivery app workers getting restroom access are also more sympathetic to having gig workers as employees, but I don't have any stats on that so I don't know where that lands in terms of intent. Voting on this also doesn't mean you can't tender a vote on employee reclassification, but again, I don't really know if city council has the ability to do much on that specifically.

I'm curious as to what your take on the issue is. I think the gig workers for these platforms should be classified as employees of the platform and thus subject to employee labor laws*. I also think that there is a reasonable case for there being a monopoly in terms of delivery app companies (well, really just company). Specific to this, I think this is a quick palliative within the reach of city council, but it's not the best ultimate solution which would seemingly have to be taken as a fight to the state level and which the massive gig companies will almost certainly launch a massive promotional blitz to prevent such.


*employee labor law reform is another massive can of worms though
Of course they should be classified as employees. This is a huge loophole in the law that these apps are exploiting and are the main reason that these companies even exist.

The city council can invoke all sorts of laws to make life difficult for these companies. They don't because they're paid off/ it doesn't matter to them.
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:19 AM
 
33,822 posts, read 47,045,194 times
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Don't let them use the bathroom

Let them fill up Poland Spring bottles and leave them on the side of the road, thats better
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Old 05-02-2021, 12:39 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
12,751 posts, read 8,213,616 times
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Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Don't let them use the bathroom

Let them fill up Poland Spring bottles and leave them on the side of the road, thats better
Why should the restaurants have to allow employees that are not their own or have anything to do with them use their bathroom? The third party apps like DoorDash, Grubhub, etc. already take enough from the restaurants. It is THEIR responsibility to deal with it, not the restaurants. When those delivery people go into the bathrooms and leave a mess, it's the restaurant that has to have staff available to clean up after them.
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Old 05-02-2021, 12:44 PM
 
33,822 posts, read 47,045,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
Why should the restaurants have to allow employees that are not their own or have anything to do with them use their bathroom? The third party apps like DoorDash, Grubhub, etc. already take enough from the restaurants. It is THEIR responsibility to deal with it, not the restaurants. When those delivery people go into the bathrooms and leave a mess, it's the restaurant that has to have staff available to clean up after them.
I'm just saying, where do they use the bathroom now?
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Old 05-02-2021, 12:51 PM
 
Location: New Jersey!!!!
18,938 posts, read 13,824,018 times
Reputation: 21309
Restaurants have all the power in this: stop using the apps. Really easy. Hire some neighborhood kids like it was for 50+ years.
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Old 05-02-2021, 01:55 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
12,751 posts, read 8,213,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
I'm just saying, where do they use the bathroom now?
Either where they can find a public one, OR they buy something at a restaurant and then use the bathroom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Restaurants have all the power in this: stop using the apps. Really easy. Hire some neighborhood kids like it was for 50+ years.
There are some restaurants I have reached out to about this. They claim that they can't afford to hire their own drivers, so apparently, they have crunched the numbers and feel as if it is cheaper to just use the third party apps. I stopped using these apps a few months ago unless I'm picking up from the place, otherwise I use the restaurant's website, then pick up my order myself, OR just go the place and eat there. The people using these third party apps are contributing to a few problems, one being the increase in these delivery guys flying down the sidewalk ILLEGALLY with these damn e-bikes instead of riding in the street as they're supposed to.

I was walking back home the other day. About half a block away from my residence, here comes an e-bike flying down the sidewalk. When he saw me and the look on my face, he stopped to let me walk by, and as I was walking by, I asked him why he was riding that damn thing on the sidewalk instead of the street (my exact words), and then asked if he was retarded or something? He just mumbled something and proceeded to fly down the block, again on the sidewalk. These delivery people from these third party apps are generally RUDE and entitled, in addition to the reckless behavior they engage in, as I constantly see people just walking on the sidewalk or crossing the street almost run over. I refuse to have my money support this kind of behavior.
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Old 05-02-2021, 02:06 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
12,751 posts, read 8,213,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
.I also think that there is a reasonable case for there being a monopoly in terms of delivery app companies (well, really just company).
What do you mean *you think*? These days, there isn't much difference between say Seamless, Grubhub, Postmates and DoorDash. I believe Seamless and Grubhub are owned by the same company, and DoorDash recently purchased Postmates, so if we look at each of these third party app portfolios, we see that they are looking to gain a larger size of the market by acquiring smaller companies in the same field, or expanding their footprint into similar things under the same umbrella, similar to how Uber branched out into UberEats, but has continued to expand by offering things like groceries being delivered and so on.

What is wild to me is that some of these companies STILL have not turned a profit. They just burn through liquid to boost profits to make themselves look attractive to potential investors and try to hit projections to satisfy current investors. On the one hand, companies like Uber are praised for "diversifying", but on the other hand, they have never really been profitable. They seem to lose BILLIONS just about every year, even before the pandemic hit. It's mind boggling when you think about the fees these third parties charge. If these "contractors" were forced to become employees, I don't see how any of them could realistically survive, as the fees are already high enough.
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Old 05-02-2021, 04:19 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,009 posts, read 39,060,092 times
Reputation: 21046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bklynball View Post
Of course they should be classified as employees. This is a huge loophole in the law that these apps are exploiting and are the main reason that these companies even exist.

The city council can invoke all sorts of laws to make life difficult for these companies. They don't because they're paid off/ it doesn't matter to them.

Great, we're mostly agreed on that. I think the nuance there is I think it makes sense in the context of how the US does things, but it is a grey area in some ways and may be more appropriately placed outside of direct platform employment in other countries.


I also disagree that the law these apps are exploiting are the main reason that these companies even exist. There are actual real advantages and drawbacks from this model and these types of companies and services have made massive amounts of headway throughout the developed world and beyond including in countries with vastly different labor laws and practices.


The city council does invoke laws to make life difficult for these companies or at least members of the city council have pushed for such. I think what you're missing is that the city council has many members that disagree with each other, and while there are council members that seem a bit more malleable to funding from private interests than others, they are not in lock step with each other. My original response was questioning your logic here about this being directly a push on the part of the delivery apps on city council and solely that. It doesn't really hold water given that there have been city council actions or at least members of the city council trying to legislate action on delivery apps and arguments made from different perspectives on matters relating to these gig platforms. I pointed you towards one already, but there had been multiple ones. Unfortunately, covid tabled or delayed some of this discussion for the city council and a lot of the really substantiative actions that can be taken are very much outside the powers of city council. I think you're presuming a default amount and extent of collusion and organization among city council members as well as private corporations that does not seem to hold water and is unfortunately uselessly cynical.
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