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Old 01-01-2022, 06:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
So are you insinuating that the jail was so poorly built for fear of escapees that they surrounded it by highways? What year was the jail built? And the surrounding expressways?
Just take the L. If you looked at a map, it'd bbe evident off the bat and you wouldn't compare it to the BK one. You'd also realize that least some people realized how negative a jail complex is on a surrounding community and sectioned it off from the rest of civilization.

They build jails next to the local criminal court for obvious reasons.

The BK example is unique. I would argue it's moreso a reflection of just how strong the BK market is and land scarcity rather than people wanting to live next to a jail.

Same goes with NYCHAs. Just because there are $10MM condos across from some NYCHA in NYC, doesn't mean people want to live next to one.
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Old 01-01-2022, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esacni View Post
Just take the L. If you looked at a map, it's be evident odd the bat and you wouldn't compare it to the BK one. You'd also realize, at least some people realized how negative a jail is on a surrounding community and therefore sectioned it off from the rest of civilization.

They build jails next to the local criminal court for obvious reasons.

The BK example is unique. I would argue it's moreso a reflection of just how strong the BK market is rather than people wanting to love next to a jail.

Same goes with NYCHAs. Just because there are $10MM condos across from some NYCHAs in NYC, doesn't mean people want to live next to one.
What about the Fed Jail in downtown Manhattan? Another unique example?
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Old 01-01-2022, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
What about the Fed Jail in downtown Manhattan? Another unique example?
What's so difficult to understand that they build jails next to the relevant courts? They built the courts and workspaces for the court system and then built the jail.

People like you and BDB want to do it in reverse. Build jails and then bus prisoners for 2 hours in mid-day traffic?

Downtown Brooklyn and Downtown Manhattan are the oldest (and most important) parts of NYC, so yes, the situation is unique.
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Old 01-01-2022, 08:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esacni View Post
What's so difficult to understand that they build jails next to the relevant courts? They built the courts and workspaces for the court system and then built the jail.

People like you and BDB want to do it in reverse. Build jails and then bus prisoners for 2 hours in mid-day traffic?

Downtown Brooklyn and Downtown Manhattan are the oldest (and most important) parts of NYC, so yes, the situation is unique.
Originally this is what I responded to, you just jumped in:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfc99 View Post
The deBlasio plan was to place jails in neighborhoods to intentionally destabilize them. His whole progressive strategy was to turn NYC into one huge ghetto-like city. Let's see how Adams handles this mess.
What you're failing to realize is that I'm making the point that jails do not destabilize the surrounding area.
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Old 01-01-2022, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
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Since they wanna cap parts of the Cross Bronx Expressway they should build a jail over it and cap it with that. Kills 2 birds with one stone. Problems solved.
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Old 01-01-2022, 09:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Originally this is what I responded to, you just jumped in:



What you're failing to realize is that I'm making the point that jails do not destabilize the surrounding area.
They do though if it's just a jail without the courthouses and other government departmental buildings.
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Old 01-01-2022, 11:20 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Originally this is what I responded to, you just jumped in:



What you're failing to realize is that I'm making the point that jails do not destabilize the surrounding area.
You're talking from a historical perspective. The size and scale of these jails is like nothing before. I've been involved with this project and have been to many of the meetings and I can say that many many people in the surrounding areas are concerned and for good measure.

For starters, the City plans on achieving lower jail populations by essentially emptying out the current jails to make the new ones possible. We're seeing how that's working, with tons of repeat offenders. There were people at these jail meetings talking about how recidivism wouldn't be a problem, but clearly it is. They point to how many were in jail simply because they couldn't afford bail, but we're seeing lots of repeat offenders that should not be out and even they believe the new set up is a joke. You seem to have a high tolerance for crime for whatever reason, so I am exactly surprised by your comments.
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Old 01-02-2022, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
You're talking from a historical perspective. The size and scale of these jails is like nothing before. I've been involved with this project and have been to many of the meetings and I can say that many many people in the surrounding areas are concerned and for good measure.

For starters, the City plans on achieving lower jail populations by essentially emptying out the current jails to make the new ones possible. We're seeing how that's working, with tons of repeat offenders. There were people at these jail meetings talking about how recidivism wouldn't be a problem, but clearly it is. They point to how many were in jail simply because they couldn't afford bail, but we're seeing lots of repeat offenders that should not be out and even they believe the new set up is a joke. You seem to have a high tolerance for crime for whatever reason, so I am exactly surprised by your comments.
So explain to the audience how a jail destabilizes a surrounding neighborhood. In 2022. Examples would be helpful. What were the peoples' concerns?
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:35 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
So explain to the audience how a jail destabilizes a surrounding neighborhood. In 2022. Examples would be helpful. What were the peoples' concerns?
Let's start with the amount of mentally ill people already roaming the streets engaging in random attacks of people just going about their business. They currently make up a sizable amount of people placed in jails (almost half of the population (43%)) that are then released and they aren't harmless either. They have been responsible for a number of subway pushings and other heinous acts that put people on edge and ultimately negatively impact neighborhoods. This has been seen on the Upper West Side for sure.

I never felt unsafe there until recently. Then you have those that are serial robbers, robbing banks and stores repeatedly that are caught and released over and over. This has led to some stores closing that are needed in the community, such as drug stores and other staples that people depend on.
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
Let's start with the amount of mentally ill people already roaming the streets engaging in random attacks of people just going about their business. They currently make up a sizable amount of people placed in jails (almost half of the population (43%)) that are then released and they aren't harmless either. They have been responsible for a number of subway pushings and other heinous acts that put people on edge and ultimately negatively impact neighborhoods. This has been seen on the Upper West Side for sure.

I never felt unsafe there until recently. Then you have those that are serial robbers, robbing banks and stores repeatedly that are caught and released over and over. This has led to some stores closing that are needed in the community, such as drug stores and other staples that people depend on.
So basically you're saying that the people getting released from jail, will stay and commit crimes in the neighborhood that surrounds the jail? That's interesting.
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Last edited by SeventhFloor; 01-02-2022 at 10:11 AM..
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