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Old thinking like this is why we have $1 Billion per stop subway projects in NYC
There's no way Elon would propose a $50 million subway tunnel going under the bay from SI to Battery Park because he's actually in the tunneling business to make money so has to have some depth of knowledge and recognize that trying to base that cost on a proportional length increase of a very different narrow-bore, shallow depth tunnel with intermittent shallow water crossings would be idiotic. That's for idiots to say, and he's pretty clearly not an idiot.
There's a massive difference to split between a $50 million and $5 billion, but maybe numbers aren't your forte either so it's hard for you to grasp that.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-23-2021 at 08:11 PM..
It might be popular due to having a direct route to Midtown. $2.75 is not much to pay.
Aside from Midtown, it also serves the Battery Park City ferry stop which is about a half hour or so walk from SI Ferry terminal so there can be some substantial time savings for people headed around there with the World Trade Center complex and surroundings office buildings.
I think the problem with the ferries is that they're pretty expensive per rider unless running jam packed. The thing that probably made them attractive is the relatively low starting capital cost, but it's more difficult to figure out ways to safely lower their operating costs. I do think that for this ferry trip, it probably would have made more sense for NYC to have reached out to other municipal or even state officials and made just one more stop at the Port Imperial ferry terminal in Weehawken where there's also a light rail stop and a lot of ongoing dense development as that'd likely be a technically easy and popular extension and could supposedly then open up for funding from other sources.
Aside from Midtown, it also serves the Battery Park City ferry stop which is about a half hour or so walk from SI Ferry terminal so there can be some substantial time savings for people headed around there with the World Trade Center complex and surroundings office buildings.
Naw I can do that walk in 15 minutes in stilettos!
Easily. I make it to Bowling Green in like 3 minutes max. Battery Park City is like 3 blocks past that.
Point being, as others said, unless going to the further stop, this ferry is silly. The SI ferry takes about 25 minutes to Whitehall. Pay $2.75 to save 7 minutes?
Those who pay attention to SI news know what happened here. Multiple south shore sites were proposed for years for this ferry. De-bag nixed them because of the south shore demographics. Period, end of story.
Battery Park City starts at Battery Pl and West St.
But you have a point: to the docking site.
I'd love to see how many workers this route benefits. Basically the Trade Center site and Goldman Sachs. I'd love to know how many north shore people are making that commute since the powers that be made clear they didn't want a new ferry serving the south shore whiteys. I guess we will find out soon if they're honest with the numbers.
30 minutes to walk from Whitehall to Battery Park City? Lol Are you serious? Maybe for 65+ people with severe disabilities.
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Originally Posted by BugsyPal
*Thank you!*
Maybe also for some females in high heels
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Originally Posted by Metromoxo
Didn't know that. Makes sense.
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Originally Posted by 90sSitcom
Naw I can do that walk in 15 minutes in stilettos!
You're all right on that account, but I explicitly said the Battery Park City ferry stop from the Whitehall terminal ferry stop. The ferries don't land in the middle of Whitehall or in the middle of Battery Park City cutting through the land as NYC ferry doesn't currently operate amphibious vehicles. Here, let me show you:
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Aside from Midtown, it also serves the Battery Park City ferry stop which is about a half hour or so walk from SI Ferry terminal so there can be some substantial time savings for people headed around there with the World Trade Center complex and surroundings office buildings.
I think the problem with the ferries is that they're pretty expensive per rider unless running jam packed. The thing that probably made them attractive is the relatively low starting capital cost, but it's more difficult to figure out ways to safely lower their operating costs. I do think that for this ferry trip, it probably would have made more sense for NYC to have reached out to other municipal or even state officials and made just one more stop at the Port Imperial ferry terminal in Weehawken where there's also a light rail stop and a lot of ongoing dense development as that'd likely be a technically easy and popular extension and could supposedly then open up for funding from other sources.
I'm still wrong on thirty minutes though--more like twenty five though obviously dependent on walking speed.
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Originally Posted by Airborneguy
Easily. I make it to Bowling Green in like 3 minutes max. Battery Park City is like 3 blocks past that.
Point being, as others said, unless going to the further stop, this ferry is silly. The SI ferry takes about 25 minutes to Whitehall. Pay $2.75 to save 7 minutes?
Those who pay attention to SI news know what happened here. Multiple south shore sites were proposed for years for this ferry. De-bag nixed them because of the south shore demographics. Period, end of story.
It's definitely a niche audience, but the $2.75 when opting for the NYC ferry to lower Manhattan versus SI ferry is probably for either 1) people headed near the Battery Park City ferry stop who would have transferred to a subway anyways and paid the fare or 2) people for whom the possible slight convenience and exclusivity matter more than $2.75 each way. There are other relevant details like the NYC ferry stop is a slightly longer walk from the SI Railway and bus terminal and that the NYC ferry is at 30 min intervals at peak intervals. For those who would save some time and effort by taking this route to lower Manhattan, but with the $2.75 being a more substantial economic barrier, well, yea, the balkanization of NYC and the Tri-State Area's transit payment schema and media is incredibly stupid and needs reform. Definitely won't be arguing against that point (I think the ferry should also stop in Weehawken's ferry terminal in godless New Jersey outside of hallowed NYC grounds for crissakes) nor that the prize stop is probably up in Midtown near Hudson Yards for people both coming in/out of Staten Island or Battery Park City.
What I can't tell you is how large that the above group is, but there is a slight difference in where the ferry stops that's probably not negligible for everyone.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-24-2021 at 07:39 PM..
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There's no way Elon would propose a $50 million subway tunnel going under the bay from SI to Battery Park because he's actually in the tunneling business to make money so has to have some depth of knowledge and recognize that trying to base that cost on a proportional length increase of a very different narrow-bore, shallow depth tunnel with intermittent shallow water crossings would be idiotic. That's for idiots to say, and he's pretty clearly not an idiot.
