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Hope this works. I've been experiencing more & more delays due to debris (or people!) found on the tracks resulting the entire line to be shut down for a time.
The MTA is looking for high-tech ways to spot people and objects in the path of trains — in hopes of cutting down on both deadly collisions and frustrating delays stemming from track intruders.
Following a months-long surge in the number of people trespassing on the tracks, the MTA last week issued a request for information to the railway and technology industry on how to deploy “track intrusion detection systems” in subways and on commuter railroads.
MTA officials noted that the technology must be able to distinguish between animate and inanimate objects and set off an alarm for anything larger than 12 inches in diameter that presents a safety risk.
It must also detect and identify what’s on the tracks from up to 600 feet away in underground and open-air stations and provide, the document says, “visual indications for Station Personnel, Train Operators and First Responders.”
“Any technology, through artificial intelligence, machine learning, thermal sensing, or other means, that can specifically detect and differentiate a human versus a non-human intrusion, would be most advantageous,” the MTA wrote.
Imagine how much lower the city budget would be if people would just behave. How much money was spent to fence in the train yards and remove graffiti from trains as just one example.
People are just trashy. The use the tracks as one giant garage can. Then they complain about train delays
when they infact cause them. Wouldn't it be great if people had manors and threw trash in the actual trash cans.
MTA needs to install subway platform doors, so people don't even have access to the tracks, like in other modern international subway systems. However, they cost $3 million per station in Paris, $10 million per station in Montreal, and... $50 million in NYC.
Imagine how much lower the city budget would be if people would just behave. How much money was spent to fence in the train yards and remove graffiti from trains as just one example.
You actually think the MTA does actual cleaning? 90% if the budget for cleaning consists of paying for "studies" and workers who pretend to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz
MTA needs to install subway platform doors, so people don't even have access to the tracks, like in other modern international subway systems. However, they cost $3 million per station in Paris, $10 million per station in Montreal, and... $50 million in NYC.
This will never happen and it's a stupid idea for a variety of reasons.
Building new stations with this feature makes sense but retrofitting rotten stations doesn't. How about they refurbish stations first?
MTA needs to install subway platform doors, so people don't even have access to the tracks, like in other modern international subway systems. However, they cost $3 million per station in Paris, $10 million per station in Montreal, and... $50 million in NYC.
Yea, pretty much this. Some stations are more challenging to do than others, and this "tech" has been around for decades and includes both retrofitting older stations and newly constructed lines. It's idiotic to think that NYC is so damn special that something that works the world over just isn't going to work here. You'll likely want to have modernized signalling for this, but then again, you want to have modernized signalling even without this anyhow. You'll also probably, though not necessarily depending on how the platform doors are implemented, want to have your rolling stock standardized around a set layout. Ideally, you'd have a limited rollout along specific services as you temporarily close, retrofit and refurbish stations during the installations (which would now ideally be easier to keep climate-controlled and clean) and have all the standardized compatible rolling stock be shifted to that line as soon as the first stations with platform doors come online and then keep going with it as you supposedly develop institutional knowledge and infrastructure to make subsequent modifications more timely and potentially cheaper, but *ideally* is the key word here.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-21-2022 at 03:30 PM..
This will never happen and it's a stupid idea for a variety of reasons.
Building new stations with this feature makes sense but retrofitting rotten stations doesn't. How about they refurbish stations first?
Why wouldn't retrofitting existing stations work? Seoul did it with comparatively large subway system.
The only reason why it wouldn't work here is the astronomical costs, nothing to do with technical feasibility.
Yea, pretty much this. Some stations are more challenging to do than others, and this "tech" has been around for decades and includes both retrofitting older stations and newly constructed lines. It's idiotic to think that NYC is so damn special that something that works the world over just isn't going to work here. You'll likely want to have modernized signalling for this, but then again, you want to have modernized signalling even without this anyhow. You'll also probably, though not necessarily depending on how the platform doors are implemented, want to have your rolling stock standardized around a set layout. Ideally, you'd have a limited rollout along specific services as you retrofit and refurbish stations for the installation (which would now ideally be easier to keep climate-controlled and clean) and have all the standardized compatible rolling stock be shifted to that line as soon as the first stations with platform doors come online and then keep going with it as you supposedly develop institutional knowledge and infrastructure to make subsequent modifications more timely and potentially cheaper, but *ideally* is the key word here.
Rolling stock should be standardized regardless if you have platform doors or not. The way NYC MTA functions is completely unorthodox. Most of our standards are completely out of whack with international norms when it comes to health, safety, union rules, and procurement practices. If it was any other country, most of our stations would violate health standards (with exposed leaky rusty pipes, electrical wiring, no ceilings, and fungus and mold growing), accessibility requirements (no elevators), and safety requirements (no platform doors). Constant train delays, train reroutes, track fires, loose garbage on live electrified rails, rodents, water and drainage system leaks causing hazardous water pooling on the tracks and signaling systems, curved station platforms with excessive gaps to the train, very small and dangerous clearance between the platform and the tracks in areas with stairs/elevators, very loud trains with poor and crooked rail alignment way above accepted human noise tolerance levels, no sound dampening screens for elevated tracks (similar to what they use here in the US on highways and train elevated tracks in other countries), brand new trainsets that still do not have clear train conductor announcements and microphone and sound systems (jeeeesus tapdancing christ Japan solved high definition sound systems on trains back in like 1990s if not earlier), etc etc.
Rolling stock should be standardized regardless if you have platform doors or not. The way NYC MTA functions is completely unorthodox. Most of our standards are completely out of whack with international norms when it comes to health, safety, union rules, and procurement practices. If it was any other country, most of our stations would violate health standards (with exposed leaky rusty pipes, electrical wiring, no ceilings, and fungus and mold growing), accessibility requirements (no elevators), and safety requirements (no platform doors). Constant train delays, train reroutes, track fires, loose garbage on live electrified rails, rodents, curved station platforms with excessive gaps to the train, very low clearance between the platform and the tracks in areas with stairs/elevators, etc etc.
Yea, it really is. Also our standard for other passenger rail rolling stock in this country in general. For MTA, even basic **** like clear signage and announcements seem to get rolled out in piecemeal fashion. Rolling stock, elevators, escalators, lighting fixtures, PA systems, etc. all coming from a hodge-podge so you have limits on the breadth of what dedicated crews can deal with so you need then even more crews/contractors with different knowledge and skills, and a more limited shared parts and services base. The hodge-podgeness probably has a sizable impact on why things take so long and cost so much, because it's like putting patch upon patch upon patch for very different things for different skill bases. It's in some form, given the history of the MTA rail system and how it was essentially inherited from competing private entities that at the time often intentionally tried to limit interoperability for business reasons, understandable, but at some point, someone needs to get the bright idea, brass balls and comically oversized warchest to come out and start forcing standardization.
Of course, there are some smaller things that can be done in the meantime, and I think a large part of Andy Byford having been successful in his limited time and authority here had a lot more to do with just institutional knowledge of how things work elsewhere. Maybe they should just do a temporary ban of native New Yorkers, or maybe Americans as a whole, from working in MTA leadership positions.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-21-2022 at 02:57 PM..
Maybe they should just do a temporary ban of native New Yorkers, or maybe Americans as a whole, from working in MTA leadership positions.
That would make too much sense. I believe MTA board members don't actually use MTA services at all regardless.
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