NYC Ferry riders became even wealthier, whiter during pandemic (gated community, bus)
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So let me get this straight... You want an already heavily subsidized ferry to also give you a free transfer to the bus or subway when you're only paying $2.75? Give me a break. How about you start by using that free shuttle bus that runs to the ferry that hardly anyone uses that also is being subsidized? The $2.75 fare is good enough. It's the cost of a subway ride for people that don't have a subway. From what I recall, you have a subway by you, so that means you can take the subway and get your free transfer that way, on a much less subsidized form of transit.
People want luxury on a diet Coke diet. If you can't cough up another $2.75 for the bus or subway that's just being cheap. Besides, I thought you bought a pass anyway? If so then you're only paying $2.75 for the ferry.
It's not so much about the free transfer or the cost per ride for me, but most of the ferry stops let you off in the middle of nowhere, regardless if you pay 2.75 or 10 bucks. You pay more for express buses and LIRR, but you're still able to connect to subway and bus fairly easy from them. For me its not about price, its about convenience of use.
Look at the SI ferry - on one end you're able to connect to the SIR and a bunch of buses. Other end you can connect to some buses and the subway. Name a ferry terminal that can boast the same.
When I used to commute to Manhattan, I wish I could have used the express bus, but there's no express bus that goes from Rockaway directly to Lower Manhattan. I would have had to take an express bus to Midtown and then transfer to another one to go downtown. Not worth the hassle.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
It's not so much about the free transfer or the cost per ride for me, but most of the ferry stops let you off in the middle of nowhere, regardless if you pay 2.75 or 10 bucks. You pay more for express buses and LIRR, but you're still able to connect to subway and bus fairly easy from them. For me its not about price, its about convenience of use.
Look at the SI ferry - on one end you're able to connect to the SIR and a bunch of buses. Other end you can connect to some buses and the subway. Name a ferry terminal that can boast the same.
When I used to commute to Manhattan, I wish I could have used the express bus, but there's no express bus that goes from Rockaway directly to Lower Manhattan. I would have had to take an express bus to Midtown and then transfer to another one to go downtown. Not worth the hassle.
Yes, again, because the ferry is providing service in areas that are subway deserts, so that's always going to be the case. The LIRR and express bus are commuter services structured to leave you in the CBDs (Central Business Districts). The ferries are more complicated because the EIS (Environmental Impact Study) dictates where docks can be placed among other factors, so that usually means having to connect to some shuttle bus or something to get you where you need to go. It's still has been a huge success, especially cost wise. For the record, the LIRR does not provide any transfer either, but like the ferry, it provides a quicker commute compared to the alternatives in areas without subway service.
Yes, again, because the ferry is providing service in areas that are subway deserts, so that's always going to be the case. The LIRR and express bus are commuter services structured to leave you in the CBDs (Central Business Districts). The ferries are more complicated because the EIS (Environmental Impact Study) dictates where docks can be placed among other factors, so that usually means having to connect to some shuttle bus or something to get you where you need to go. It's still has been a huge success, especially cost wise. For the record, the LIRR does not provide any transfer either, but like the ferry, it provides a quicker commute compared to the alternatives in areas without subway service.
Yeah but there's nothing of importance in the immediate vicinity of most of the ferry stops to begin with (combined with the fact that they don't connect to the bus or subway). The ferry system overall is really not meant for working commuters. You brought up subsidies before, but truthfully the subsidies are assisting people who can well afford a 10 dollar ticket.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Yeah but there's nothing of importance in the immediate vicinity of most of the ferry stops to begin with (combined with the fact that they don't connect to the bus or subway). The ferry system overall is really not meant for working commuters. You brought up subsidies before, but truthfully the subsidies are assisting people who can well afford a 10 dollar ticket.
The ferry serves areas that are definitely not well off... Red Hook, Soundview and soon to be Coney Island are just a few. There are definitely parts of Rockaway that are hood/poor, so that's a notion that's overblown.
As I said, the placement of the docks are based on where they can be placed, and they're not going to focus on if there things of interest, simply because they can't.
The ferry serves areas that are definitely not well off... Red Hook, Soundview and soon to be Coney Island are just a few. There are definitely parts of Rockaway that are hood/poor, so that's a notion that's overblown.
As I said, the placement of the docks are based on where they can be placed, and they're not going to focus on if there things of interest, simply because they can't.
If the ferry serves areas that are not well off, then why are people of lower income not using it more, in your opinion?
In response to the bolded, so who does the ferry really benefit?
Also, a few points:
Red Hook is actually pretty expensive to rent or own, outside of NYCHA
The Soundview terminal is pretty far from the poorest parts of the neighborhood, same with Rockaway whereas the terminal is pretty far from the poorest parts of the peninsula
So you don't believe the results of the study that shows that richer people are the ones that are using the ferry (and receiving the subsidy) the most? If you don't believe the results, why not?
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
If the ferry serves areas that are not well off, then why are people of lower income not using it more, in your opinion?
In response to the bolded, so who does the ferry really benefit?
Also, a few points:
Red Hook is actually pretty expensive to rent or own, outside of NYCHA
The Soundview terminal is pretty far from the poorest parts of the neighborhood, same with Rockaway whereas the terminal is pretty far from the poorest parts of the peninsula
So you don't believe the results of the study that shows that richer people are the ones that are using the ferry (and receiving the subsidy) the most? If you don't believe the results, why not?
The Ferry,.in it's current incarnation, is a novelty. It's useless to most NYCers, whether rich or poor.
The amount of residents that use the ferry on a regular basis is so miniscule that any data is skewed and easily manipulated.
As a commuting option, the ferry's are only useful to this who live within half a mile of a departure terminal and who's destination nis half mile from an arrival terminal. For everyone else, rich or poor, the Ferry's are inconvenient at best.
The Ferry,.in it's current incarnation, is a novelty. It's useless to most NYCers, whether rich or poor.
The amount of residents that use the ferry on a regular basis is so miniscule that any data is skewed and easily manipulated.
As a commuting option, the ferry's are only useful to this who live within half a mile of a departure terminal and who's destination nis half mile from an arrival terminal. For everyone else, rich or poor, the Ferry's are inconvenient at best.
Yes, IMO the ferry doesn't benefit the vast majority of city residents.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
If the ferry serves areas that are not well off, then why are people of lower income not using it more, in your opinion?
In response to the bolded, so who does the ferry really benefit?
Also, a few points:
Red Hook is actually pretty expensive to rent or own, outside of NYCHA
The Soundview terminal is pretty far from the poorest parts of the neighborhood, same with Rockaway whereas the terminal is pretty far from the poorest parts of the peninsula
So you don't believe the results of the study that shows that richer people are the ones that are using the ferry (and receiving the subsidy) the most? If you don't believe the results, why not?
Who said they aren't?
The report says that over 30% of people using the ferry are people of color and it doesn't say much about what percentage of lower income people are using it and just provides an average income level, which anyone can do when they want to make the point they are trying to make.
I used Red Hook because the ferry actually is close to NYCHA housing. As for possible reasons why more lower income people may not use it... They are many reasons I could think of, but it isn't due to accessibility. As I said, there is a shuttle bus that runs for FREE in the Rockaways for those not near the ferry that want to use it, including in the poorer part of the Rockaways, so if people really want to use it they would. Some of it could be where lower income people work, lack of education as in not knowing about their options, etc., but I do know that some lower income people in Soundview have taken advantage of it. There is a bus (not free) that they can take for those further north that can get them close to the ferry. Again, if people really want to use it, they will, but ultimately, only so much can be done. It's not a subway. It's a ferry that has been heavily subsidized to the price of a subway ride to make it accessible to many people, so if people want to make excuses about why they can't use it, they will, no matter how cheap you make it.
One issue could be the amount of transfers needed. I know higher income people can either walk or drive to the ferry, which is convenient.
Yes, IMO the ferry doesn't benefit the vast majority of city residents.
The subway is supposed to benefit the vast majority of residents because most New Yorkers have a subway. Why would the vast majority of New Yorkers take a ferry when they have a subway? The problem is people don't seem to understand that the ferries are NOT replacing the subway NOR are they are a subway in any form. They are serving areas with NO subway! That's the point... For people that are isolated without a subway that live near a ferry, they now have a quick way to get around, and that population is a small minority of New Yorkers.
The subway is supposed to benefit the vast majority of residents because most New Yorkers have a subway. Why would the vast majority of New Yorkers take a ferry when they have a subway? The problem is people don't seem to understand that the ferries are NOT replacing the subway NOR are they are a subway in any form. They are serving areas with NO subway! That's the point... For people that are isolated without a subway that live near a ferry, they now have a quick way to get around, and that population is a small minority of New Yorkers.
Meh
True for Soundview and Throgs Neck
Not true for any other ferry stops, you have to walk some distance to the subway, but its not totally inaccessible. It should be connected much better to our public transportation system however. It's a big gap thats not filled.
Plus I bring up the point again that majority of these stops have nothing of importance around them once you get off.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
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The $2.75 fare is good enough. It's the cost of a subway ride for people that don't have a subway. From what I recall, you have a subway by you, so that means you can take the subway and get your free transfer that way, on a much less subsidized form of transit. 
