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Old 10-14-2022, 10:11 AM
 
3,806 posts, read 3,531,098 times
Reputation: 7828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapikap View Post
The problem we are in is because judges, DA, cops, corrections,everyone in line do dumb shh, and drag the courts with tons of BS..

Alleged criminals at rikers are just that ,innocent till proven. Many people dont even beling there! Fare jumping, or anything under $100 is not a reason to place someone in Hell!

So put money into the courts and court staff to move the process along fast, don't release violent criminals instead.
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Old 10-14-2022, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
5,467 posts, read 5,742,410 times
Reputation: 6098
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapikap View Post
The problem we are in is because judges, DA, cops, corrections,everyone in line do dumb shh, and drag the courts with tons of BS..

Alleged criminals at rikers are just that ,innocent till proven. Many people dont even beling there! Fare jumping, or anything under $100 is not a reason to place someone in Hell!

Due process should not take over a year! And all those broken windows arrest, just to recruit the black and brown to crimey community college that is Rikers Island. Flood the jails and courts to the brim ,let people die and rot, just because few men in Blue DGAF!

All in all ,thank your golden boy Rudy G. For all the shh this city is going through..
Due process takes that long largely for the benefit of the defendant, for the defense attorney to review the evidence/come up with a plausible story, find and interview their own witnesses, get security cam footage or other evidence, prepare rebuttals, research case law, etc.
By law, the prosecutors provide discovery to the defense within 20 days if the person is in Rikers, and within 35 days if they are out on bail. After that, it is up to the defense if they want to 'expedite' the trial.
Don't get fooled, the people in Rikers know exactly what the state has got on them. However, due to attorney-client privilege, the attorney cannot disclose that evidence even to the defendant's closest relatives. Thats how a lot of these young dudes in Rikers try to fool their own mothers. When the mother says "my little boy didn't do nothing", the attorney just stays silent. She doesn't know what they know. During a trial, it is only a surprise to the spectators/witnesses and the jury that the footage comes out of the defendant committing the actual crime. The defendant's side had known about that evidence from the very beginning. There are absolutely no surprises or gotchas like you see in the movies.

Last edited by Gantz; 10-14-2022 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 10-14-2022, 01:49 PM
 
15,643 posts, read 7,674,771 times
Reputation: 19499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 92 LSC View Post
Violent offenders should not be let go because they can’t afford bail.
If someone stole a banana from a store that’s One thing. Violent offenders need to post bail, if they can’t , they shouldn’t be committing crimes to begin with.
It's fine to require bail for violent offenders, but what purpose is served when a well off guy commits a violent crime and can easily make the $100k bail, but the poor guy arrested for the same crime has no way at all of making $100k bail? Should people rot in jail simply for being poor, when having money would get them released? Is the solution to raise the bail amount for the better off defendant, or lower it for the poor one?

Keep in mind that bail in NY is limited to ensuring the defendant returns for their court appearances.
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Old 10-14-2022, 01:52 PM
 
15,643 posts, read 7,674,771 times
Reputation: 19499
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKTwet View Post
I’m against bail myself because I think it’s just stop gap for real criminal justice. There needs to be harsher penalties and bail doesn’t solve that problem. You look at why some countries have less crime because they either have very strict institutional educational system or very strong conviction rates and harsh penalty for criminals. In America we have none of that. Criminals stay as criminals because they aren’t required to be educated and they aren’t being penalized hard enough to deter them from committing crime again.

So basically, we let the. Criminals out on the loose to keep preying on civilians until they get some poetic justice.
So, you are arguing that no one should get bail while waiting for trial, even though they are presumed innocent?

The US has an incarceration rate higher than just about every country in the world, and US prisons are not known for being soft.
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Old 10-14-2022, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
5,467 posts, read 5,742,410 times
Reputation: 6098
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
It's fine to require bail for violent offenders, but what purpose is served when a well off guy commits a violent crime and can easily make the $100k bail, but the poor guy arrested for the same crime has no way at all of making $100k bail? Should people rot in jail simply for being poor, when having money would get them released? Is the solution to raise the bail amount for the better off defendant, or lower it for the poor one?

Keep in mind that bail in NY is limited to ensuring the defendant returns for their court appearances.
The bail amount is set based on both, the ability to pay and the severity of the crime. The judge takes it into consideration.
If you're rich, you are usually hit with at least a 10x bail amount compared to an average person.
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Old 10-14-2022, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
5,467 posts, read 5,742,410 times
Reputation: 6098
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
So, you are arguing that no one should get bail while waiting for trial, even though they are presumed innocent?

The US has an incarceration rate higher than just about every country in the world, and US prisons are not known for being soft.
The US also has the highest rate of people willing to commit crime among developed nations in the first place. It is largely a cultural phenomenon.
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Old 10-15-2022, 01:09 PM
 
Location: NY
16,219 posts, read 6,966,934 times
Reputation: 12500
Bail Reform Hasn't caused the Increase in Crime


Just because I have never seen Bears crap in the woods doesn't meant they don't.

N.Y.C. and word trickery................business as usual.
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Old 10-15-2022, 02:45 PM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,626,905 times
Reputation: 4314
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapikap View Post
The problem we are in is because judges, DA, cops, corrections,everyone in line do dumb shh, and drag the courts with tons of BS..

Alleged criminals at rikers are just that ,innocent till proven. Many people dont even beling there! Fare jumping, or anything under $100 is not a reason to place someone in Hell!

Due process should not take over a year! And all those broken windows arrest, just to recruit the black and brown to crimey community college that is Rikers Island. Flood the jails and courts to the brim ,let people die and rot, just because few men in Blue DGAF!

All in all ,thank your golden boy Rudy G. For all the shh this city is going through..
Actually, the jail population was higher pre-Rudy

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/n...n/11jails.html

Peak Rikers pop was in 1992.
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Old 10-15-2022, 04:27 PM
 
Location: NY
16,219 posts, read 6,966,934 times
Reputation: 12500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapikap View Post
The problem we are in is because judges, DA, cops, corrections,everyone in line do dumb shh, and drag the courts with tons of BS..

Alleged criminals at rikers are just that ,innocent till proven. Many people dont even beling there! Fare jumping, or anything under $100 is not a reason to place someone in Hell!

Due process should not take over a year! And all those broken windows arrest, just to recruit the black and brown to crimey community college that is Rikers Island. Flood the jails and courts to the brim ,let people die and rot, just because few men in Blue DGAF!

All in all ,thank your golden boy Rudy G. For all the shh this city is going through..


Hogwash.............................It is because of the Giuliani administration that contributing members of society stayed.
Why? They felt safe.

Now thanks to Bill and Eric over a million normal high school and college graduates have left leaving us with
crimey college graduates as you put it to fill the void.

How's that working out for the entire city?

Gimme a Break.
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