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Noooo I never said it can’t function …I said we won’t see much difference except rents for all would more likely rise then not and simply put an extra burden on those who may have lower rents …it will likely do little for anyone else if done away with …
The reason I mention how i profited is because so few here understand how you profit or why developers and many landlords actually want stabilization to continue …
They get a flawed view from people like you who complain and complain but still have not demonstrated a thing would change .
While we can’t say what would happen if it went way we can look and see what is happening here with it in place .
Many tenants are benefiting and rentals are being put up again because of the incentive programs even with stabilization in place . Developers and land lords are benefiting off it as well or they wouldnt be in it .
Seems like there is still more good coming out of it for both sides then bad
Perhaps they should stop giving people tax breaks on mortgage interest , real estate taxes , or even having more kids ,aca subsidies should be stopped , because I don’t benefit …after all why should they pay less …that seems to be your kind of thinking because if it isn’t benefiting you then it should go away
But nice spins you add even if they are not accurate.
Nyc is where many on both sides adapted and learned to play by the restrictions and rules and use them to their benefit.
Your argument for RS regulation has changed a few times.at one point you even mentioned that LL's got so screwed by the initial RS programs in the 70s that many abandoned the NYC market for fear of being screwed again.
For the umpteenth time, the fact that investors make money is irrelevant. The amount of rentals being put up is miniscule. There's still a massive shortage in rental housing. This fact alone negates your entire argument on its own.
When it comes to other subsidies I agree but don't lump in everything together. Every subsidy can be discussed individually. Some can be objectively shown to make a market more efficient (mainly in very specialized markets) and (many others) do not.
The fact that the NYC RE market is still woefully short of rental units blows up your entire argument. How is RS regulation and current zoning making the NYC market more efficient? Because a few investors and tenants benefit? That's really your argument? It's completely ridiculous. The amount of new construction, is quite literally, a joke.
You profiting is completely irrelevant. Even moreso when your case is unique and a complete byproduct of the perverted system. It's like a drug dealer arguing that drug dealing is good because they made money off of it. Well, no ****?
At one point I worked for an early stage start-up that was eventually acquired (for $3BN). I made quite a bit off of my equity . If someone wants to argue the merit of this or that in the tech world, how is me making a boatload of money (basically pure luck) in it relevant? It doesn't make my argument any less or more valid. The only reason to constantly bring it up is if I want let others know I made a few dollars and confer some type of authority to my arguments.
The initial rent stabilized landlords got screwed .they were told it was only to prevent rent gouging ..
Put politicians turned tenants in to pawns to win votes and held rents down .
So the city got what it deserved ..no rentals were built and many rentals converted to coop
so the city killed stabilization off as far as one having to be in the 1970s if you built and still not one rental was built ….it wasn’t until they offered these lucrative programs that developers came back .
But most still have had no interest in rentals here as condos , coops and luxury rentals is where they want to be.
So that hasn’t changed And is not going to change unless rents go so high that they are even more profitable then these programs are or are more profitable then coops and condos .
Many residential property is being taken down and developers building multi use commercial spaces or strictly commercial .
As far as what you call welfare or subsidies , I have my own views .
Your fair share of taxes is the lowest amount you can get them down to using the laws , programs and tools in place to accomplish that .
All these things like writing off real estate taxes , mortgage interest , aca rebates , kids ,etc are all things that allow all of us who work the ability to keep more of what we earn .
Let me say that again !
It lets us keep more of what we earned .
When it comes to these stabilized programs , they are letting developers and builders keep more of what they earned offsetting potentially lower rents to many renters who get to keep more of what they earned simply because they have lived in a place for a while .
In my opinion in no shape or form is this welfare ….
It is just playing by the rules imposed and playing your cards to give you the most from YOUR OWN MONEY YOU EARNED .
On the other hand if it is not allowing you to keep more of what you earned , but are taking from the pool of tax money others earned , well that is welfare .
So you really need to look at personal situations to see if it is welfare or just keeping more of what you earned playing by the rules.
Many things are going to be just different shades of gray as to where they fall out .
We have people here on city data worth millions .
They are living off very little taxable income in retirement and qualifying for Medicaid health insurance because you are automatically shuttled off to Medicaid if you fall below the aca income levels ….
While they may very well be keeping more of what they earned I have a moral issue with that since Medicaid was set up as a welfare program ..with the exception of a special form of Medicaid called EXTENDED Medicaid .
That was set up to go with the New York partnership plans for long term care where you have and pay for 100% asset protection ….
When you exceed the 3 years coverage the state gives you a special version of medicaid to take over the bills while you have no asset limits , no spend down , no look back , no restrictions on the stay at home spouses income .
These plans are no longer available in New York as the insurers pulled out of selling new policies.
Usage of long term care is actually very different from the old statistics which showed such low usage ..
SSI , FOOD STAMPS , SECTION 8 can all be More welfare programs then allowing most to keep more of what they earned.
I would not consider ssdi welfare since you had to work to get it and qualify
Last edited by mathjak107; 11-06-2022 at 07:34 AM..
The Real Estate Market needs Federal Regulation..............( sarcasm )
In 1943 we were at war with very bad people overseas.
Today we are at war with non contributing members of society right here at home........... Yes sarcasm................................
That wasn’t my point. My point is that they have done it before. The circumstances aren’t what we are discussing here.
The initial rent stabilized landlords got screwed .they were told it was only to prevent rent gouging ..
Put politicians turned tenants in to pawns to win votes and held rents down .
So the city got what it deserved ..no rentals were built and many rentals converted to coop
so the city killed stabilization off as far as one having to be in the 1970s if you built and still not one rental was built ….it wasn’t until they offered these lucrative programs that developers came back .
But most still have had no interest in rentals here as condos , coops and luxury rentals is where they want to be.
So that hasn’t changed And is not going to change unless rents go so high that they are even more profitable then these programs are or are more profitable then coops and condos .
Many residential property is being taken down and developers building multi use commercial spaces or strictly commercial .
As far as what you call welfare or subsidies , I have my own views .
Your fair share of taxes is the lowest amount you can get them down to using the laws , programs and tools in place to accomplish that .
All these things like writing off real estate taxes , mortgage interest , aca rebates , kids ,etc are all things that allow all of us who work the ability to keep more of what we earn .
Let me say that again !
It lets us keep more of what we earned .
When it comes to these stabilized programs , they are letting developers and builders keep more of what they earned offsetting potentially lower rents to many renters who get to keep more of what they earned simply because they have lived in a place for a while .
In my opinion in no shape or form is this welfare ….
It is just playing by the rules imposed and playing your cards to give you the most from YOUR OWN MONEY YOU EARNED .
On the other hand if it is not allowing you to keep more of what you earned , but are taking from the pool of tax money others earned , well that is welfare .
So you really need to look at personal situations to see if it is welfare or just keeping more of what you earned playing by the rules.
Many things are going to be just different shades of gray as to where they fall out .
We have people here on city data worth millions .
They are living off very little taxable income in retirement and qualifying for Medicaid health insurance because you are automatically shuttled off to Medicaid if you fall below the aca income levels ….
While they may very well be keeping more of what they earned I have a moral issue with that since Medicaid was set up as a welfare program ..with the exception of a special form of Medicaid called EXTENDED Medicaid .
That was set up to go with the New York partnership plans for long term care where you have and pay for 100% asset protection ….
When you exceed the 3 years coverage the state gives you a special version of medicaid to take over the bills while you have no asset limits , no spend down , no look back , no restrictions on the stay at home spouses income .
These plans are no longer available in New York as the insurers pulled out of selling new policies.
Usage of long term care is actually very different from the old statistics which showed such low usage ..
SSI , FOOD STAMPS , SECTION 8 can all be More welfare programs then allowing most to keep more of what they earned.
I would not consider ssdi welfare since you had to work to get it and qualify
Arguing with this poster isn’t worth it. They won’t get it. And arguing on this site seems to be something they enjoy
Your argument for RS regulation has changed a few times.at one point you even mentioned that LL's got so screwed by the initial RS programs in the 70s that many abandoned the NYC market for fear of being screwed again.
For the umpteenth time, the fact that investors make money is irrelevant. The amount of rentals being put up is miniscule. There's still a massive shortage in rental housing. This fact alone negates your entire argument on its own.
When it comes to other subsidies I agree but don't lump in everything together. Every subsidy can be discussed individually. Some can be objectively shown to make a market more efficient (mainly in very specialized markets) and (many others) do not.
The fact that the NYC RE market is still woefully short of rental units blows up your entire argument. How is RS regulation and current zoning making the NYC market more efficient? Because a few investors and tenants benefit? That's really your argument? It's completely ridiculous. The amount of new construction, is quite literally, a joke.
You profiting is completely irrelevant. Even moreso when your case is unique and a complete byproduct of the perverted system. It's like a drug dealer arguing that drug dealing is good because they made money off of it. Well, no ****?
At one point I worked for an early stage start-up that was eventually acquired (for $3BN). I made quite a bit off of my equity . If someone wants to argue the merit of this or that in the tech world, how is me making a boatload of money (basically pure luck) in it relevant? It doesn't make my argument any less or more valid. The only reason to constantly bring it up is if I want let others know I made a few dollars and confer some type of authority to my arguments.
a drug dealer arguing that drug dealing is good because they made money off of it. Well, no ****?
Agree............The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
What we focus and from where we focus.
Rent stabilization has proven to be so disastrous that it isn't even replicated in other lib strongholds like Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, St. Louis, Atlanta, etc.
Rent stabilization has proven to be so disastrous that it isn't even replicated in other lib strongholds like Detroit, Baltimore, Chicago, St. Louis, Atlanta, etc.
There is a time and a place for everything.
Rent Stabilization is in the process of giving up the ghost.........hence......empty apartments.
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