NYC will require Uber and Lyft to go fully electric by 2030 (homes, heat pump)
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Forget about the grid, there's no space for charging cars. There's no space to even park cars around NYC.
Consider that it takes 40mins to charge a Tesla from 10% to full on superchargers. Do the math, if you have 10% of the 25,000 uber cars that needs to be charged. It means you need 2,500 spots to park cars and have superchargers lined up.
Currently there is less than 100 superchargers in NYC. Good luck, where is the space?
This is more reasons to pump the stocks of Tesla and then once they realize it doesn't work out. They will dump the stock and the idea of forcing all cars to EV.
Forget about the grid, there's no space for charging cars. There's no space to even park cars around NYC.
Consider that it takes 40mins to charge a Tesla from 10% to full on superchargers. Do the math, if you have 10% of the 25,000 uber cars that needs to be charged. It means you need 2,500 spots to park cars and have superchargers lined up.
Currently there is less than 100 superchargers in NYC. Good luck, where is the space?
This is more reasons to pump the stocks of Tesla and then once they realize it doesn't work out. They will dump the stock and the idea of forcing all cars to EV.
How about fix the goddam subways.
Yea, absolutely fix the subways and improve mass transit, but requiring rideshare operated by private entities to go fully electric by 2030 does not interfere in any meaningful sense with that. It's like saying you can't eat more vegetables in your diet unless you get into the habit of washing your hands after pooping. Both are reasonably good ideas and doing one does not preclude you from doing the other.
Consider that parking spaces can be charging spaces because charging is generally sited as *part* of parking and there's far more flexibility in where you can install chargers than where you can install gas stations and DC fast chargers have been installed in parking garages as well as at independent stations. Note that fairly little refueling is done within Manhattan so it does not make sense that you need to have all charging done in places with scant space like Manhattan either, but rather just a top up when and if necessary for when you need to get to a place with more available or cheaper chargers. Also, keep in mind that this is in 2030. This year is not 2030. Next year isn't either. Nor is the year after that. Given the past few years, you'd have to be an idiot to think that the number of fast chargers in NYC today is representative of the number of fast chargers available in 2030. You'd also have to be an idiot given the past few years to assume that the max charge rate, charge curves, rated range, and efficiency for EVs today are going to be representative of most EVs in 2030.
You rarely charge EVs to full. You should know this since you presumably had or have a Tesla. The sweet spot in charging where it charges most rapidly is from to about 80%--it does not make sense to wait at a fast charger for 40 minutes to get to full for the most part. Nor is Tesla the only EV provider today and that is unlikely to change in the coming years though they do have a pretty aggressive market share. How do you not know basic **** like this despite having owned an EV? You say one ridiculous thing after another about EVs on the Automotive forum and it just seems like maybe the problem is that you somehow spent a bunch of money on something that you never figured out how to use.
You want to do more math? Then maybe you can start with stats on particulate emissions and how much idling with tailpipe emissions in densely packed traffic might not be a great idea: https://keck.usc.edu/study-links-ado...proved-health/
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-03-2023 at 01:51 PM..
This is too much. All this push to go electric and I have a strong feeling we won't have the infrastructure to support it. Like why ban gas stoves. When everything goes to electric and the power grid keeps knocking out, pretty sure there will be a lot of regret. I wanted to like NYC, but this along with other issues has me thinking of moving to another state, or better yet, another country (the move to another country wouldn't have to do with the push for everything to go electric though).
When I discuss EVs with my NYC friends I tell them to wait. Even with what little incentives NYC offers, the price of electricity is way too high there to make up the initial extra outlay, and with gas at a reasonable price, may even be more expensive in the end.
I pay $.12 per kwh. In Staten Island it was exactly 3x more when I left. I dont see how those numbers can work in EVs favor.
In NJ I paid no sales tax either. That alone brought the price of the car close to in line with a comparable gas car that would have had thousands added on top.
Yeah, a hybrid is cheaper to drive than an BEV. I have a Honda hybrid and a Tesla. The Honda is cheaper to drive even at $4/gallon and exclusively charging the Tesla at home. Something like $0.07 vs $0.09 per mile.
That's not even accounting for the fact the Honda was $23k out the door
You rarely charge EVs to full. You should know this since you presumably had or have a Tesla. The sweet spot in charging where it charges most rapidly is from to about 80%--it does not make sense to wait at a fast charger for 40 minutes to get to full for the most part. Nor is Tesla the only EV provider today and that is unlikely to change in the coming years though they do have a pretty aggressive market share. How do you not know basic **** like this despite having owned an EV? You say one ridiculous thing after another about EVs on the Automotive forum and it just seems like maybe the problem is that you somehow spent a bunch of money on something that you never figured out how to use.
You can't make every parking spot a charging spot. Who is going to supply the charging network, equipment, and ensure the spot is only used for charging. Say you park somewhere to charge the car, you have to pay for parking fees in NYC. So to park somewhere and charge for 40mins you also have to pay parking fees. That is an expensive thing compared to filling up for gas that takes less than 10 minutes to do and no need to pay parking fees. Any EV charging in NYC will have to pay $10-20/hr to charge in addition to whatever charging fees. That's roughly $25-40 to park and charge a car.
You can't make it up man. We don't have the infrastructure to put charging equipment and writing everywhere in NYC and charging needs time and space. Each spot is occupied by a parking meter in NYC and there's no enough parking spaces right now. What will end up happening is that many Uber EVs will run out of battery when there's nowhere to charge and they are in the middle of taking a customer.
NYC needs efficient mass transit not mass of uber cars.
Another assault on the working and middle class. But, alas, hard for me to sympathize with anyone here. Elections have consequences. This is what happens when you elect wokesters.
Note, I support EVs. I just don't support these kind of mandates.
Is Nancy P buying stocks in companies that excavate Lithium or Cobalt??
Well considering cobalt is always going to be used for desulphurization in oil refining even as EV batteries are moving on from it, it would be a smart bet.
You can't make every parking spot a charging spot. Who is going to supply the charging network, equipment, and ensure the spot is only used for charging. Say you park somewhere to charge the car, you have to pay for parking fees in NYC. So to park somewhere and charge for 40mins you also have to pay parking fees. That is an expensive thing compared to filling up for gas that takes less than 10 minutes to do and no need to pay parking fees. Any EV charging in NYC will have to pay $10-20/hr to charge in addition to whatever charging fees. That's roughly $25-40 to park and charge a car.
You can't make it up man. We don't have the infrastructure to put charging equipment and writing everywhere in NYC and charging needs time and space. Each spot is occupied by a parking meter in NYC and there's no enough parking spaces right now. What will end up happening is that many Uber EVs will run out of battery when there's nowhere to charge and they are in the middle of taking a customer.
NYC needs efficient mass transit not mass of uber cars.
You need to actually address what's being said for this to be a productive conversation. If you just ignore what's said just to then roll into other points, then this doesn't go anywhere and it's a waste of both of our times and not even in a good or interesting way.
It'd be good if you acknowledged your previous post had some faults in it. Talk about the number of charging points in NYC today when the topic is about a ban that comes into effect more than five years from now. You citing that there are currently less than 100 Tesla supercharging stations in NYC today does not make any sense. Five years ago, there were a handful of charging stations in NYC and the number of Tesla supercharging stations, and non Tesla supercharging stations was closer to 0. This is a terrible way for you to make a point. That citing of current charge time to charge from 10% to full is also silly, because what full or 100% means varies greatly as EV ranges can vary and the trend has been going upwards, charging at stations does not necessitate getting up to full but instead to when you think you'll plug in overnight or get to a more convenient place and usually doesn't go above 80%, and that whether 80% or 100% charge, charge times have improved dramatically and there is no indication those improvements will stop.
So do that first, but I'll throw in response to your current post as well. First off, who said anything about making every parking spot a charging spot? Why would you need to install one for EVERY SINGLE ONE of the combined hundreds of thousands of parking spots in Manhattan or the millions within NYC? That seems like a pretty silly statement. Even if we were somehow restricted to just level 2 chargers, those dispense overnight generally enough range to cover over a week of average US driving and quite likely a couple to a few weeks of average NYC driving. Is this deliberately misleading on your part or are you yourself confused?
EV charging can be profitable which is the incentive for doing so, though it certainly doesn't make sense to expend the money to install all the chargers you might need six years from now immediately. It does make sense to several companies to install chargers as the number of EVs increase which account whether it's to lure people into parking garages and get more money directly, into shopping center parking as potentially an amenity, as a way to install screens somewhere as advertising supported revenue, etc. because it's an opportunity in some way to make money. Funny enough, gas station owners also generally intend to make money as well. As for charging times and parking fees--yea, that'll have to work itself out. I already talked about how charging times today are not representative of what they are six years from now, so fast DC charging might very well be essentially equivalent to gas station refueling times by then and the operating model for charging for some livery drivers will essentially be like that instead. The good thing is that unlike gas stations, there is a much, much greater flexibility in where they can be placed and can even be placed in a way where there are habitable or usable structure above or below it unlike a gas station. This likely means less time spent reaching a recharging station or going out of a way to get to one within Manhattan compared to going to a gas station. It's just not much thinking through this on your part.
NYC needs efficient mass transit. That's one thing we both agree on, and once again, that has just about nothing to do with legislating rideshare services become electric six years from now on.
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