NYC will require Uber and Lyft to go fully electric by 2030 (New York: purchase, construction)
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It's foolish to do the math using conditions that are extremely unlikely to hold more than six years from now. This goes up and down from number of charging locations, to the range of vehicles when fully charged, to the speed at which the vehicles charge. That is an incredibly wrong way to look at this, even odder given the vast improvements from the previous six years, and you need to acknowledge that first.
Then you need to acknowledge your other faulty assumptions such as why exactly you need a public charger for every vehicle. Instead, you're now introducing even more faulty assumptions. Why, if you're talking about fast chargers, would there be a need for anything close to a ten-to-one number of fast charging spots per vehicle? And for what reason do bike paths and bus lanes need to be removed for charging spots if charging can be where parking spots are?
There are actually reasonable bases for some level of concern here, and there will need to be more fast charging stations as EV uptake increases, but to pretend that the conditions stay the same even as EV adoption increases seems completely unreasonable. Gantz has a reasonable attribute to factor in which would be that a tiny fraction of the vehicles in 2030 doing rideshare in 2030 will be MY2030, and that's something to be factored in, but he's not assuming that virtually all EVs in 2030 are going to be the EVs that are on the streets today, and certainly no one's dumb enough to think that the EV chargers in place today, which are *not* in place of bike lanes or bus lanes or even in place of on-street parking, are going to be the extent of public chargers in NYC in 2030. The ~180 or so DC fast charging public stalls in NYC proper are pretty much all within the last few years and the install rates are *increasing* save for the pandemic hiccup in 2020 and 2021. It makes no sense to think that this will stop given increases in EV adoption rates, and would make a lot of sense for the pace of install to increase. These aren't taking up bike lanes or bus lanes--they're mostly installed on private property that is publicly accessible for charging. Why you think this would change to cannibalizing bus lanes and bike lanes is a head scratcher.
Also, keep in mind, irrespective of what NYC legislates, Uber has already announced that drivers will need to be using electric vehicles on their platform by 2030.
I think you're talking out of your ass again and again, I use real data.
10% of those daily rideshare cars that needs to be charged is very conservative. Assuming 50k cars daily in/out of NYC, we need 5,000+ charging spots. Consider EV charging is a slower process. They need to find space and enough electricity to do so.
Answer these 3 fundamental questions:
- Where we gonna find the space to put chargers, equipment in NYC for atleast 2,000 parking spots??
- How do you allow people to charge and park without incurring additional parking fees? Otherwise it will be a very expensive cost for EVs to charge for 1 hour and pay 1 hour parking fees.
- Where is the electrical grid upgrades capable of supporting EV charging in the summer? Each EV charger Level 2 uses about 32-48 amps while Tesla uses 70amps for superchargers. Window AC only uses up to 20 amps at max.
If the Whartons, the Biddles, the Coopers, and the Koch's were forced to take subways, the trains would become safe and comfortable in the blink of an eye.
How to do it? Set a tax rate for taxis, ubers, and lyfts at $500 for the first tenth of a mile, the proceeds of which go to the MTA. Eventually these outmoded, inefficient ways of ferrying the rich around will disappear.
I actually think the best solution is no rideshare allowed period. I was against the congestion pricing but after studying it and how it's improved London. I think we should do away with rideshares completely for workdays which will easily make buses more viable. Fix subway signaling and improve the trains.
I haven't taken an Uber in NYC during daytime for almost 5-6 years, I usually grab an Uber late at night when the trains don't run on-time.
I can see rideshare going full EV when they aren't causing gridlock and congestion everywhere during the daytime. Those EVs using heat or AC is gonna easily use up their batteries.
It was a big mistake for DeBlasio to allow Uber/Lyft to operate in NYC during work days. They are the major causes of congestion and wasteful energy use idling and sitting around.
Are they imposing this requirement on all radio cars? What about yellow cabs?
As far as the rides have companies, if this doesn't pencil out for their drivers, they'll find another libe of work that does. Of course this is probably what the environazis who push this idiocy really want , make hire cars unprofitable so they'll get go away.
I think you're talking out of your ass again and again, I use real data.
10% of those daily rideshare cars that needs to be charged is very conservative. Assuming 50k cars daily in/out of NYC, we need 5,000+ charging spots. Consider EV charging is a slower process. They need to find space and enough electricity to do so.
Answer these 3 fundamental questions:
- Where we gonna find the space to put chargers, equipment in NYC for atleast 2,000 parking spots??
- How do you allow people to charge and park without incurring additional parking fees? Otherwise it will be a very expensive cost for EVs to charge for 1 hour and pay 1 hour parking fees.
- Where is the electrical grid upgrades capable of supporting EV charging in the summer? Each EV charger Level 2 uses about 32-48 amps while Tesla uses 70amps for superchargers. Window AC only uses up to 20 amps at max.
You don't know how to interpret the data though. It's inherently stupid to assume that charging infrastructure as it is today is going to be the state of charging infrastructure six years from now. I argue that's even worse than no data, because you're misleading yourself and others. Charging infrastructure even at the end of this year isn't going to be the same as now. Revel, which I mentioned before, had two massive rounds of funding and is putting in large charging hubs over the course of this year--and yea, it's a startup so it's on shakey ground for a longer term future, but even if they go under, the electrical infrastructure will still remain in place. It's not even very sensible to think that average charging times today are going to be equivalent to average charging times six years from now, because that's certainly not the case today compared to six years ago in 2017 when at best it was nearly non-existent CCS chargers at 50 kW if you can find them and early V2 Tesla chargers at *best* were at 120 kW in A/B pairs so if someone pulled up next to you, you might see your charge rate cut in half.
Again, why do you need 5,000+ DC fast charging spots to support 50K cars? How did you settle on that arbitrary percentage? Do you know what the average number of miles a NYC vehicle used for rideshare does a day? As I stated before and with the reasons why, NYC is likely a distinctly different market from the rest of the US in the number of miles and efficiency. What proportion of those vehicles has less than eight hours of parked downtime per day? We need to get these numbers first to make even a reasonable estimation instead of you just saying that you feel a certain way and feel real certain about it.
You also have several odd mistakes there which leads me to believe you don't understand what amps are. You're trying to compare a level 2 charger's amps to Tesla's superchargers amps which is pretty odd. It does not seem like you understand even the most basic parts of electricity. You also don't seem to understand what fundamentally needs to be upgraded about the grid if you're thinking about using wall socket 120V AC as most of charging. You have very basic fundamental patches in knowledge and so you don't even know what are the right questions to ask or when a question you're asking is nonsensical.
At least you've scuttled the bit about all the bus lanes and bike paths that need to be devoured, but this is also one of the issues with discussing things with you on these forums. You don't have much backbone to either stick by things you say or to acknowledge that there were issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKTwet
I actually think the best solution is no rideshare allowed period. I was against the congestion pricing but after studying it and how it's improved London. I think we should do away with rideshares completely for workdays which will easily make buses more viable. Fix subway signaling and improve the trains.
I haven't taken an Uber in NYC during daytime for almost 5-6 years, I usually grab an Uber late at night when the trains don't run on-time.
I can see rideshare going full EV when they aren't causing gridlock and congestion everywhere during the daytime. Those EVs using heat or AC is gonna easily use up their batteries.
It was a big mistake for DeBlasio to allow Uber/Lyft to operate in NYC during work days. They are the major causes of congestion and wasteful energy use idling and sitting around.
London most certainly did not do away with rideshare and it is very popular there, so there's no reason for congestion pricing to be mutually exclusive with congestion pricing (and the credit should go to Singapore on congestion pricing with London a much later adopter). On top of congestion pricing, London also has its ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) that leverages another hefty fee on top of congestion pricing. That is expanding from Inner London to all London Boroughs this year and will likely be increasingly more stringent. Even now, EVs are most of the new models that can drive without the additional fee in the ULEZ, so yea, London is pushing even more rapidly towards electrification of its fleet.
Heat, when it's with a heat pump as the majority of new EVs sold in the US have and in the Tri-State Area's climate, and AC are not major drains. They have the potentially one period of higher drain from getting batteries and cabin up to temperature if completely cold-soaked from being parked but not charged for a long period of time, but maintaining the temperature afterwards require small amounts of energy compared to actual moving the vehicle and the capacity of the battery packs. If you hate the waste from idling though, then you might appreciate electric vehicles more because they use very little energy when "idling" and have no tailpipe emissions.
Again, I'm absolutely with you on fixing signaling and improving the trains--and the buses! And the bike paths. And also probably pedestrianizing far more of the city and also removing more parking from city streets and relegate most if not all parking to private paid parking. Again though, none of this needs to be mutually exclusive with requiring rideshare to be electric though.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-08-2023 at 09:59 AM..
I think you're talking out of your ass again and again, I use real data.
10% of those daily rideshare cars that needs to be charged is very conservative. Assuming 50k cars daily in/out of NYC, we need 5,000+ charging spots. Consider EV charging is a slower process. They need to find space and enough electricity to do so.
Answer these 3 fundamental questions:
- Where we gonna find the space to put chargers, equipment in NYC for atleast 2,000 parking spots??
- How do you allow people to charge and park without incurring additional parking fees? Otherwise it will be a very expensive cost for EVs to charge for 1 hour and pay 1 hour parking fees.
- Where is the electrical grid upgrades capable of supporting EV charging in the summer? Each EV charger Level 2 uses about 32-48 amps while Tesla uses 70amps for superchargers. Window AC only uses up to 20 amps at max.
Don’t even bother holding an honest conversation. A few posts back this poster claimed that Revel was a “sizable†operation. There are over 150,000 rideshare vehicles and Revel accounts for less than 100 of them?
Anyone who thinks there will be major breakthroughs with EV tech for an AFFORDABLE price in the next 6 years is ignorant. Go look at a model 3 and model S for the past 5 years. Nothing much has changed because these cars have to be sold for a relatively affordable price. In fact, Tesla is removing features from current model years due to cost increases. They have to stay profitable in order to stay in business. They can’t give you 1,000 miles of range at $50K. That’s not going to happen even in 10 years.
Arguing that “things will be very different “ in 6 years is pure ignorance. Almost everything about consumer EVs will stay the same into 2030. These companies have to make a profit. They can’t invest into R&D and buy tech while selling $1 worth of car to consumers for 50 cents.
The real innovation (as per usual) will come on the commercial side as pricing and economies of scale make more sense selling top of the line tech to the corporate side. Eventually, that tech will trickle into the consumer side but it will take decades until the correct economies of scale are achieved.
Let me rephrase this: Democrats seem to create new delusional unattainable laws that will do nothing but hurt the working man while benefitting their elite-woke-virtue-signaling voting base every 4 hours.
Unless they count the emissions from the generation of the electricity, this is a bogus claim.
All this nonsense about e-vehicles does is transfer the pollution from one area to another...fossil OR Nuclear.
Unless they count the emissions from the generation of the electricity, this is a bogus claim.
All this nonsense about e-vehicles does is transfer the pollution from one area to another...fossil OR Nuclear.
It's pretty clear that it's zero tailpipe emissions. And yea, that is pretty helpful in some ways since having emissions densely concentrated where population is densely concentrated is maybe not the best idea. Setting things up for EVs also would be nice as the grid hopefully becomes cleaner.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-14-2023 at 09:01 PM..
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