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Rudbeckia, culture is exactly what I meant. First generation Mexicans do not have a violent, ghetto culture that unfortunately characterizes African-American, Dominican, Jamaican, and Puerto Rican neighborhoods here in New York. Even working class Cuban neighborhoods in South Florida are DRASTICALLY different places than working class Dominican or Puerto Rican neighborhoods (in my opinion). Cuban neighborhoods are generally safer, cleaner, better maintained, and have little to no gang violence. I grew up in South Florida and though there aren't many Mexicans, the areas with large Mexican presence aren't known as dangerous. There's one area that is predominately Mexican / Central American that borders an area that is African-American. The two neighborhoods feel very different. As one poster said in the Miami forum, one may be the "barrio," but the other is "da hood," and feels like it. Crime rate and unemployment are probably the biggest indicators of these differences.
Mexicans were smart for moving to Queens; it's smart for them to try to keep their children away from the ghetto "Latino"-American street culture that unfortunately has such a presence in northern Manhattan and the Bronx. Like I have said and will repeat again, though there are PLENTY of good Puerto Rican and Dominican young people, much too high a percentage of these groups fall victim to this culture to which I am referring. As much as it would be nice to talk about "Latino unity," I would have to advise against it in the case of Mexicans because they are just establishing themselves here and will probably want to distance themselves from the bad northern Manhattan and the Bronx neighborhoods that give Puerto Rican and Dominican youths such a bad rap in this city.
I think you are being a little bit too optimistic that many 2nd generation Mexican-Americans won't pick up a lot of the pathologies of low-income urban areas in the city.
Look at what goes on in Los Angeles. The Mexicans come into the country, work real hard, but their kids grow up to be a bunch of pain in the a$$es involved in gangs and whatnot.
I would be highly surprised if the same thing wasn't taking place right now with a lot of Mexican Americans being born and raised in areas like Spanish Harlem and the Bronx.
Queens is a little bit of a different story. It depends on the neighborhood, but on the whole Queens is more normal and middle class than most areas of Northern Manhattan or the Bronx.
I think you are being a little bit too optimistic that many 2nd generation Mexican-Americans won't pick up a lot of the pathologies of low-income urban areas in the city.
Look at what goes on in Los Angeles. The Mexicans come into the country, work real hard, but their kids grow up to be a bunch of pain in the a$$es involved in gangs and whatnot.
I would be highly surprised if the same thing wasn't taking place right now with a lot of Mexican Americans being born and raised in areas like Spanish Harlem and the Bronx.
Queens is a little bit of a different story. It depends on the neighborhood, but on the whole Queens is more normal and middle class than most areas of Northern Manhattan or the Bronx.
Mead, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying. I think it's shameful what lots of second generation American "Mexican" kids have become and I am just saying that I hope the children of Mexican immigrants to NYC will take a different path. This is why I think it's good that Mexicans have chosen largely to live in Queens and not in the high crime "ghetto" areas of northern Manhattan and the Bronx. People think it's really controversial that I often do NOT support unity among Latin groups, but I see what succombing to the ghetto street culture (I am ashamed that it is even associated with being "Latin" at all ) can do, so I would rather just advise new Latin American immigrants to stay away from areas where their kids will likely be exposed to the street culture associated with Dominicans and Puerto Ricans (and African-Americans youths, the group to which the two aforementioned Latin groups "assimilated.")
Crisp in Queens alot of the Mexicans and other central Americal kids are in gangs. But for some reason Uptown, Bronx, and Brooklyn get more of the fame.
Well, that's sad to hear. It must be really hard for the parents because if Mexican kids start getting associated with gangs/violence, this will tarnish the reputation of Mexicans in NYC in general.
There are a significant number of Mexicans in Mott Haven...and the population of Mexicans across the city has exploded in the past 10 years. People may look down on Mexicans, but that is typical of any group that moves to NYC. The "natives" always look down on the new group entering the city...especially when they are moving into "their" neighborhoods. Nonetheless, Mexicans have been a boon to the NYC economy, as they are doing jobs that many of the poor "natives" like PRs, won't do, anymore at least.
In Mott Haven there are TONS of PRs that live there, young and old, and quite fit, yet do nothing but walk around their block in circles all day, stand on corners, sit on stoops, and "hang". They have no skills, and no ambition to gain any or improve their lot in life unfortunately, and the jobs that they theoretically could have, menial labor, are eagerly taken by Mexicans. When I need work done in my house..there is not a PR that either has the skills, ambition, or reliability to do the work...so I call the Mexicans who are prompt, eager, and skilled.
This is not to stereotype in anyway, but whenever I need something done, not just for my home, it is rarely the case I can rely on any "native" PR, but always must call Mexicans..and the city has the same mentality, as a wide variety of businesses now rely on this pool of labor for these types of jobs.
The city is very welcoming of Mexicans, or anyone for that matter. The bigger issue is, are these Mexicans able to afford to live here!
Crispy: I have to disagree greatly with you about your assessment of Miami Cubans. They are in fact notorius for deadly street gangs involved in the drug trade...ever seen Scarface? The gang problem is quite serious in Miami, and South Florida for that matter, and Cubans are at the center of it. Although the Cuban working class neighborhoods look nice and well maintained, and no doubt the sunshine, palm trees, and tropical breezes enhance the neighborhood in ways that NYC neighborhoods could not, nonetheless the gang culture is pervasive and entrenched. A little off topic....but something that should be noted and it quite prevalent and strong today.
I think you make some interesting observations. I am not sure it is fair though to say that Mexicans didn't grow up in the New York ghetto culture, so that in some way contributes to their lower crime, higher employment way of life. The environments they are fleeing from (where they grew up) are not much better in many cases. Ghettos in Mexico, from what I have read and from what Mexicans I have worked with have told me, can in some ways be much worse.
ooh, definately, have you guys ever been to Mexico, their slums, are worst than any American slums i have ever witnessed. Check out all the killings, in our neighbor city of Juarez, since Jan, theirs been 400 murders [execution style], and everyday the number increases atleast by 5. The rest of Mexico, isnt any better. Older Mexican people are pretty passive for the most part, and yes, very clean, they may not have much, but what they have, they take really good care of. Im sure, because of their illegal status, they dont want to make any waves.
ooh, definately, have you guys ever been to Mexico, their slums, are worst than any American slums i have ever witnessed. Check out all the killings, in our neighbor city of Juarez, since Jan, theirs been 400 murders [execution style], and everyday the number increases atleast by 5. The rest of Mexico, isnt any better. Older Mexican people are pretty passive for the most part, and yes, very clean, they may not have much, but what they have, they take really good care of. Im sure, because of their illegal status, they dont want to make any waves.
I have been to Mexico, but more rural sections. I did drive through a rough part of Mexico city, and rough is an understatement.
But I think you are probably right, we don't see as much crime from Mexicans b/c many are illegal.
But I do think it is interesting to note the worth ethic in Mexicans. I think many are growing up in environments similar to NYC ghetto, yet the mind set is totally different.
I am not saying all Mexicans are hard working,and everyone else isn't, but from my experiences many have a totally different mind set than whites, blacks, and other races growing up in poor America.
Mead, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying. I think it's shameful what lots of second generation American "Mexican" kids have become and I am just saying that I hope the children of Mexican immigrants to NYC will take a different path. This is why I think it's good that Mexicans have chosen largely to live in Queens and not in the high crime "ghetto" areas of northern Manhattan and the Bronx. People think it's really controversial that I often do NOT support unity among Latin groups, but I see what succombing to the ghetto street culture (I am ashamed that it is even associated with being "Latin" at all ) can do, so I would rather just advise new Latin American immigrants to stay away from areas where their kids will likely be exposed to the street culture associated with Dominicans and Puerto Ricans (and African-Americans youths, the group to which the two aforementioned Latin groups "assimilated.")
The stats on Mexicans here are still rather new. Are you sure they are mostly in Queens? As far as I know they are rather spread out. There are quite a few of them in the Bronx and in Spanish Harlem.
One interesting dynamic to point out is that Mexico is a huge country, and there are cultural differences just within Mexico. I was talking to a girl I met once who is Mexican and lives here, and grew up here. She was telling me that most of the Mexicans that have come to NYC are from a different region of Mexico than the ones who traditionally immigrated to Cali and Texas. She explained to me that cultural differences do exist between the different regions in Mexico.
BTW "street cultured," Mexicans do exist. I've seen more than a few walking around the Bronx.
There seems to be a fairly large Mexican population around Belmont & Arthur Ave.
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) can do, so I would rather just advise new Latin American immigrants to stay away from areas where their kids will likely be exposed to the street culture associated with Dominicans and Puerto Ricans (and African-Americans youths, the group to which the two aforementioned Latin groups "assimilated.")
