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Have you taken a toddler to the park? I do every day if it's sunny. (Admittedly, when we lived in London that wasn't so often!) Most people are busy watching their child--not yours.
The problem is that single family houses in NYC are prohibitively expensive (where they're still houses, and not converted into apartments), which drives people to the burbs. I'm just saying that people should try to understand that there are legitimate concerns behind the move to the suburbs, and they're not just going to disappear. Plus, like I said, not all suburbia is equal. There's a big difference between the inner ring with its smaller lots, train service and sometimes even walkable areas, and the exurbs where you can't even get a quart of milk without driving.
I agree with you Alexis, you cannot just send your child to the park and watch them out the window in today's world. It's sad, but true, that you just do not know what may happen, especially more so in a highly urban environment, regardless of the neighborhood. In your own yard, you have a reasonable expectation of safety as you can have the property secured for the children, and they can play freely.
I agree....there are legitimate reasons to move to the suburbs! Which is why they are everywhere and growing in fact. Unfortunately, there are too many who do not realize the cities are better, as you can have the suburban lifestyle there also, as well as a city lifestyle. And don't believe the hype..cities are just as affordable.
Depends on the city and what you're looking for. We're looking to rent in Bayside (only an apartment right now) but I don't know that we could afford to buy a house there based on the prices we've seen. Whereas we could in a lot of Nassau.
In many respects, the cities are actually more affordable than some suburbs what with high real estate prices and high taxes. There might be a slight trade-off in space, but you could actually come out ahead in the city, but it's a lifestyle choice for most people to have a suburban home, privacy among other things.
that can be a very local decision as well. Here,. you have a trade-off. NYC pays lower property tax, but it has city income tax. (The lower property tax means, in some cases, that houses in eastern Queens will be more expensive than identical ones over the Nassau line.)
OTOH, take SoCal. After Prop 13 was passed, they passed a law called Mello-Roos. This lets new subdivisions charge an extra tax (based on value at the time of building) to cover the costs of infrastructure. Some Mello-Roos districts can effectlvely have double the taxes of houses that don't have these taxes--so new suburbs can have lethal taxes.
Mmm, smell the self-satisfaction! This is something I really hate. I have no desire whatsoever to live in a new build suburb, but let me tell you, you're not winning over the suburbanites with that attitude.
I'm not trying to win over the suburbanites. I don't even really want them to come back to the city, because they left it to rot they shouldn't enjoy its benefits. Its what's going to happen. It takes way too much energy for everybody to live dispersed like they do. Where does this energy come from? A finite resource. Which means it runs out. Which means the suburbs are, indeed, futile. Self satisfaction? Absolutely. I pay 81 a month for my transportation, all of which goes right back into the US economy. You pay 81 a tank, and that money goes to the middle east, which hates us and is pretty unpatriotic when ya really think about it.
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I don't see the suburbs dying at all. The exurbs, yes. People who stretched themselves to buy and are driving 2+ hours a day, that's not sustainable. But the inner suburbs are another story. In New York, you have to move outside the city limits to get any space unless you have a ton of money, since NYC house lots are small.
True, but those inner burbs will change, or at least they will if they want to survive. Meaning more dense development around the LIRR. The suburban character will be preserved for the most part, but will also have a healthy mix of apartment buildings close to the train, which would better reflect the true demands (regardless of gas prices) of the residents than the government-imposed low-density zoning forces upon developers.
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Your argument is entirely irrelevant to the majority of suburban families. "Flava" means nil when it also means lousy schools and nowhere for the kids to play. You know what many families think when they see these lauded "New Urbanist" developments? No yard. A lot of families just don't want to live packed in like that. A lot of families have a completely different set of priorities.
If that's what people think about "new urbanist" development, they obviously don't know a lot about "new urbanist" development. Most cities are actually comprised of large, single family houses of great craftsmanship with decent sized lots with those nice green yards u guys love so much. And pretty much, that's most of which new urbanist development employs--single family, quiet, spacious living. Not all packed in like that, although there are certainly a nice market for those that do want to live packed in like that in a thriving urban environment. And the schools in LI are good, right? I don't see why that would change if they zoned higher around the train.
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I think places like Nassau and Westchester aren't going to die even with higher fuel prices. Yes, they're imperfect. They sprawl and you need a car. But (especially on the South Shore) it's smaller lots and smaller houses (easier to heat and cool) and they do at least have train service.
lets see. prices are pretty bad now, but remember: oil is finite. I'm sure it will get so much worse. Remember, i say all this stuff granted that our entire economy wont collapse altogether. but change is commin. u can count on it.
expect people to move into nyc for these very reasons...
i know im thinking about it
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Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc
I think the gas/oil/cooling prices are terrible and will cause a small amount of people to move back towards the city. This, however, is no "doomsday" and I think it's probably just a correction.
I would love to think more people by the droves are moving back towards center and inner-cities--but the majority of Americans are in love with the outdoors, cars, peace&quiet, and convenience--which equal the suburbs for most.
We may see a slight increase in population due to the higher prices, but I'd say not by a lot, really, overall.
I agree with you Alexis, you cannot just send your child to the park and watch them out the window in today's world. It's sad, but true, that you just do not know what may happen, especially more so in a highly urban environment, regardless of the neighborhood. In your own yard, you have a reasonable expectation of safety as you can have the property secured for the children, and they can play freely.
Funny that there are at least 3 back yard pool and children related fatalities in LI over the long weekend. Yet, I haven't heard of any children related fatalities in city parks over the weekend from the same news source (radio).
Here are two of them that turn up when I did a quick search:
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