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Old 07-15-2008, 03:47 PM
 
169 posts, read 396,457 times
Reputation: 66

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1. I am not a 14 year old kid trolling internet websites more than you are a 50 year old virgin who spends his life posting on citydata.
2. Um, residents have access to the harlem river already and have for very long, and theres a reason why there's no park--because its six blocks away from the neighborhood!!
3. As far as the transportation, you must be blind. Look at concourse--are there any vacant lots there? no. its served by the d train. But look at third ave, does that have vacant lots? yes. because they used to have a train and then they took it out, which caused values to drop. If you don't see the connection between transportation and development, then you know nothing about city planning, because this is one of the most fundamental concepts of how cities function. And highways don't serve dense, urban environments. You see no connection between the decline of the bronx and the south bronx expressway and the public housing? I'm not fooled by your ignorance.

fact is that we are spending a billion to build a stadium across the street from a larger one with way more history, which will obviously only benefit the yankee's. Nobody here on this board has come close to providing a reason why that makes sense. Why does this have to be a choice between having an old park and a new stadium? Why can it not be to simply fix the park? that would have been a much less expensive, and more positive investment for the neighborhood. Most people in the neighborhood have absolutely no utility for the new stadium. To say that the yankee's are the bronx is not reason to give them a billion dollars to raise ticket prices and allow thousands less to attend games, and take away 27 acres of parkland that may have not looked nice n pretty how you like, but it definitely served the community well.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:50 PM
 
169 posts, read 396,457 times
Reputation: 66
and the other thing is you don't see me complaining about the aesthetic improvements to the neighborhood. But you have still failed to explain how the stadium is an improvement. Speak for your own neighborhood, because you obviously know nothing about this one.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Concourse Village, Bronx
127 posts, read 524,882 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson92186 View Post
and the other thing is you don't see me complaining about the aesthetic improvements to the neighborhood. But you have still failed to explain how the stadium is an improvement. Speak for your own neighborhood, because you obviously know nothing about this one.


The bottom line is that Yankee Stadium brings goodwill to the area and the Bronx in general. I don't think the Gateway Mall/Esplanade project would have been built had the Yankees left the area. The Grand Concourse/161st greening was probably also part of a greater Yankee area renovation.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Bay Ridge, NY
1,915 posts, read 7,594,163 times
Reputation: 555
I highly doubt the Yankees were EVER leaving.. this is a common scheme to get people to do what you want. Out of fear of them leaving, you'll have to grant them the stadium.. but the threat could easily have just been idle for that very purpose.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,051 posts, read 32,383,611 times
Reputation: 10559
Quote:
Originally Posted by analyticalkeys View Post
I highly doubt the Yankees were EVER leaving.. this is a common scheme to get people to do what you want. Out of fear of them leaving, you'll have to grant them the stadium.. but the threat could easily have just been idle for that very purpose.
That happens to be true. Ever since the Dodgers and Giants actually did leave New York, sports franchises have been using the threat as leverage to squeeze their host cities. In the Yankees' case, the likelihood that they wouldn't have been allowed to continue calling themselves "New York" had they crossed the Hudson was a major consideration in making their threat idle.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:18 AM
 
12,825 posts, read 19,022,121 times
Reputation: 6837
Quote:
fact is that we are spending a billion to build a stadium across the street from a larger one with way more history, which will obviously only benefit the yankee's. Nobody here on this board has come close to providing a reason why that makes sense. Why does this have to be a choice between having an old park and a new stadium? Why can it not be to simply fix the park? that would have been a much less expensive, and more positive investment for the neighborhood. Most people in the neighborhood have absolutely no utility for the new stadium. To say that the yankee's are the bronx is not reason to give them a billion dollars to raise ticket prices and allow thousands less to attend games, and take away 27 acres of parkland that may have not looked nice n pretty how you like, but it definitely served the community well
Most rational people would agree with you. However, what I and some others have stated is that such decisons are made from a lethal combination of money and emotion.

Despite my Orioles allegiance (fading due to Peter Angelos), I love Yankee Stadium. I have many memories and the history speaks for itself. But the big Stein looks at the bottom line, not how many times Moth was blitzed in the bleachers reflecting on the Babe and the Scooter. He wants a a more "modern" and thus profitable ballpark. Modern means luxury boxes and concourses full of bars, eateries and shops. Personally, I do not care as I am a purist. But the purist is nearly extinct in baseball.

Look at the bright side. It could have been worse. Stein has made it clear for years that some kind of drastic change was inevitable. At the end of the day, the Bombers remain where they are. When the late Jack Kent Cooke made it clear he wanted a new stadium for the Redskins, DC and he negotiated like two mental patients. He got impatient and moved them to PG county into a hellacious hellhole of a stadium.

Again, you are correct. But there is something bigger than all you mention at play here.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,597,143 times
Reputation: 209
Jackson I think we will agree to disagree on these subjects, because easily accessible, cheap, reliable, public transportation is the hallmark of NYC, yet areas in the South Bronx, including around Yankee stadium, have been in a state of decay for 30+ years, and would be still had real investment, via developments like Yankee Stadium, Gateway Mall, Affordable Housing, and infrastructure improvements, had not taken place.

Again, if you believe the South Bronx deteriorated, and remained in a state of decay, because of poor transportation, or lackthereof, then you do not understand NYC, or the history of the Bronx and NYC. There is a difference between reading and learning from books, and the realities of life. NYC, and the South Bronx in particular, does not suffer from lack of transportation, nor are more train lines to an area that is already served by the 2,4,5,6,B,D, Metro-North stations, Buses, AND Highways, somehow going to solve anything.

Your assertions are laughable..although I am sure in the books you read they sound quite convincing and will likely work in places that have little to no public transport...NYC, and the South Bronx in particular, is not one of them.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:24 AM
 
169 posts, read 396,457 times
Reputation: 66
You totally ignored what I said. Look at third ave, look at grand concourse. The bus was not an effective substitute to the subway on third ave, and look what happened. As for your neighborhood, a highway was placed right on top of it, as well as a bunch of projects. The connection is obvious--transportation has a huge effect. And the pjs, which lowered land values. My assertions are laughable? Maybe if you know absolutely nothing about cities. And you say developments like yankee stadium? Look at what the old stadium did--NOTHING. You compare the decay of thrid ave to my neighborhood, even though they are totally different. My neighborhood is filled with buildings that were never burnt down, why do you think that is? Served well by transit, and the gvt. didn't try and build projects. Again, you defend the gvt. for its worst decisions.
You don't know a damn thing about how cities work.
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,597,143 times
Reputation: 209
I do not disagree that public transportation is vital to the health of neighborhoods, however the area is already served by the 2/4/5/6/B/D, Metro-North...so let's be serious here. If you want a train line covering every 3 blocks..that's silly and not going to happen....between the trains, buses, and highways, the South Bronx in particular has superior access to easy, cheap, reliable train access, moreso than many other areas in Brooklyn, Queens, and wealthier enclaves in the Bronx for that matter..so clearly transportation is NOT what ailes this community, nor has it every been the case. The problems are bigger and more complex than adding another train line will solve...so let's be serious. However, as I stated, transportation has a huge effect...but we already have it and then some and still the area was in decay for 30 years!!!! Your solution of adding train lines throughout the South Bronx would have solved all the ills of the area is ludicrous.

I agree the OLD stadium did little for the area, but the new stadium is not JUST the stadium..and I shall repeat: The Yankee stadium redevelopment zone includes:

-The new Stadium AND
-Upgraded infrastructure like streets, sidewalks, lights, landscaping
-Brand New State of the Art Parks: including the waterfront park, landscaped plazas, etc.
-New Greening throughout the area, including trees!
-New Gateway Mall: including a Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, Marshalls, Toys R Us, plus restaurants like AppleBees
-New developments and interest in redeveloping surrounding parcels INCLUDING affordable housing and market rate.
-New Transportation : A new Metro-North Stop.

So yes you can just look at the new stadium in a vaccuum and come to the conclusion that it is/was a big waste and monumental giveaway for absolutely no reason, but the reality is it is only 1 part of the giant investment the city is putting into the area, the benefits of which 90% of the community will enjoy year round. Or you can have the old stadium, your old park, and remain stagnant for another 30 years. The choice is clear...which is why the area is being repositioned to a working/m,iddle class enclave, with amenities, parks, etc to meet the community's needs, current and future.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:44 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 19,022,121 times
Reputation: 6837
Have you ever considered that Riverdale has remained the best part of the Bronx because the subway does not go there?
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