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Old 08-12-2008, 06:14 PM
 
730 posts, read 2,882,116 times
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But you must admit that when a neighborhood begins to gentrify the area overall improves. New business will come in, parks are restored, saftey increases. It would be nice if somehow these things could happen and the long term residents could remain. I have seen this in my neighborhood. Blocks that are being gentrified have homes that are maintained better, cleaner sidewalks, brightly lit shops. Isn't that a benefit to the long term residents as well? I have seen this with my neighbors. One house starts keeping it's property well maintained, stoops are swept and flowers/plants are outside. This spreads to the surrounding houses little by little and now everyone has a more liveable environment. There must be a way that an area that is bad can gentrify without displacing all of the long term residents of the community because it is they who in fact make it a community, not just the new people moving in.

Gentrification generally takes a long time with each new person and long term resident doing a little bit at a time until slowly the area becomes a desireable place for all to live.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
877 posts, read 2,763,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnePatrice View Post
But you must admit that when a neighborhood begins to gentrify the area overall improves. New business will come in, parks are restored, saftey increases. It would be nice if somehow these things could happen and the long term residents could remain. I have seen this in my neighborhood. Blocks that are being gentrified have homes that are maintained better, cleaner sidewalks, brightly lit shops. Isn't that a benefit to the long term residents as well? I have seen this with my neighbors. One house starts keeping it's property well maintained, stoops are swept and flowers/plants are outside. This spreads to the surrounding houses little by little and now everyone has a more liveable environment. There must be a way that an area that is bad can gentrify without displacing all of the long term residents of the community because it is they who in fact make it a community, not just the new people moving in.

Gentrification generally takes a long time with each new person and long term resident doing a little bit at a time until slowly the area becomes a desireable place for all to live.
I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with a neighborhood gentrifying in the way that you described. The biggest gripe that I may have is that before gentrification begins, the neighborhood is already on the verge. Long term residents have been out there struggling to make their area a better place to live and once that happens, it becomes comfortable enough for gentrification. New people moving in without displacing of older residents is the only thing that concerns me and one of the reasons that it concerns me is that a lot of older people that do not qualify for any type of housing assistance are being displaced due to rent increases and they may have lived in their apartment for many, many, many years and have fought to revitalize their neighborhood and then do not get a chance to enjoy it but as Fred mentioned it really is all about money and those that have money can benefit in this type of situation.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:17 AM
 
125 posts, read 129,432 times
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Darkman excellent post! I cannot comment on the writer personally, I can only organize my thoughts based on the limited information I have. We know that they were kicked out of the park by cops but we do not know why, but as a reasonable and rationale person, and based on the information the writer provided, a reasonable person can infer that they were kicked out of the park for smoking weed there too, or associating with the wrong people and loitering in the park, and not becuase they were landscaping, picking up garbage, repainting, pruning, or anyother such activity. We also know that for some reason, the author and friends are "forced" to hang out in front of their building and smoke weed (however many is moot). You indicate that this person is a "positive" member of the community, and does wonderful things, but that goes against what the author states in his article. I was not aware that being a "positive" member of the community meant that you hang out in front of the building, smoke weed, and become a nuisance to the Tenants of the building, neighbors, passerbys, and the owner of the building. And if you believe this is not a nuisance, or somehow welcome in front of or around their building, or your building, then we will agree to disagree. When you have your hallways and apt, kids room, filled with pot smoke, or have friends/family over and must close the windows because of the pot smoke, maybe you will have a different opinion. And they are "forced" to do this in front of the building because??? I believe the problem would be solved if they were more considerate of their nieghbors, the public, and the owners by doing it somewhere else! A positive member of the community would not being doing this so flagrantly in public for people/kids to see and be exposed to, nor would they assume that doing it in front of the building is normal, welcome, and their right. As for the claim of a drug ring, we do not know. But again, based on the article we know he is involved with an illicit group who have no problems about flagrantly smoking weed wherever they feel. We also know they must be buying from drug dealers, how else would they be acquiring this? What does this mean? They are involved with and supporting the drug trade in the community...you may see this as innocuous, or "who doesn't smoke weed" but unfortunately, they are providing money and support to the criminal element that has and is wreaking havoc on generations of kids, helped to criminalize scores of young men and women, supported gangviolence, and has kept these communities in a state of physical, psychological, and social disrepair. Regarding your comment LynnPatrice, come to the Bronx and see how revitalization is occuring and locals are staying, driving the changes, and enjoying the changes. It is happening and overwhelmingly successful.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:26 AM
 
730 posts, read 2,882,116 times
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Originally Posted by hypnotizzed View Post
Regarding your comment LynnPatrice, come to the Bronx and see how revitalization is occuring and locals are staying, driving the changes, and enjoying the changes. It is happening and overwhelmingly successful.
Yes, I think that's great. I wish it could work this way everywhere. It just seems to me like it doesn't because I have been hearing/reading a lot about locals resenting the newbies and there being tension in the area because of this. What do you think is happening in the Bronx that isn't happening elsewhere? What type of relationship do the oldtimers have with the newcomers?
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
317 posts, read 1,141,855 times
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The Bronx hasn't really had the same influx of newcomers as Brooklyn has had (yet). Most of the transplants I know have arrived in Brooklyn, and some to Queens (mostly Astoria and Long Island City). Two people I went to college with (I went to a SUNY in upstate NY for a few years) initially moved down here to the Bronx, but they've both since relocated again to Brooklyn.

I also know two Bronx natives who've moved to Queens, and two Queens natives who've moved to Brooklyn recently, but none who've gone the other way.

I don't know anyone who's moved to Staten Island, though
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:06 AM
 
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The difference between what is happening in Brooklyn and what is happening in the Bronx is really quite simple. Brooklyn's change came from an influx of outsiders, with local home owners, outside developers, and businesses greedily exploiting these new residents at the cost of the locals, and everything else for that matter. The city encouraged this immigration through developer and business incentives to cater to the new crowd and thus you see what has happened, and continues to happen today. The South Bronx community, fought much of the planned gentrification by the city in the early 90s, and instead worked with the city to craft a new vision for a huge swath of the community, basically the entire South Bronx as a middle/working class enclave for the city. The community was not driven by greed, and worked with the city to create a master plan that would meet the needs of the middle/working class locals, as well as new transplants, WITHOUT having to displace (for the most part) the lower class. As a result, the area is being completely built for the ground up (literally) as a prime middle/working class area, and the last bastion of affordable housing the city will have, with the amenities, resources, and retail to support this growth and development. However, as a result of the "rebirth" (so to speak) of the South Bronx, as well as the recent runup in real estate, there has been some influx of newbies, however this is normal and healthy for the community. What is happening now, is that as prices have reached ridiculous proportions in most areas of the city, and as the South Bronx has been/is being rebuilt, with much already complete, the area is now seeing more of an influx of newbies, which again is still a good thing. However, instead of displacement, they are becoming a part of the community, and contributing to its success. I know a fair amount of people who bought condos in the Aurora and the Orion (South Bronx condos) are from Brooklyn (I learned that from the thread about the condos), and other parts of the city. The vast majority of people I know who are from the Bronx and are/have moved, do not stay in the city, they always go to Pennsylvania, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, or other such affordable area.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:26 AM
 
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Very interesting about the BX. That sounds awesome to rejuvenate our beautiful city but not to have to displace everyone in that effort.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:01 AM
 
169 posts, read 418,204 times
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[quote][We also know they must be buying from drug dealers, how else would they be acquiring this? What does this mean? They are involved with and supporting the drug trade in the community...you may see this as innocuous, or "who doesn't smoke weed" but unfortunately, they are providing money and support to the criminal element that has and is wreaking havoc on generations of kids, helped to criminalize scores of young men and women, supported gangviolence, and has kept these communities in a state of physical, psychological, and social disrepair. /QUOTE]

This is all pretty false talking about weed. You can count the number of deaths ever related to weed on your fingers. These things you speak of, they are related to more serious drugs. And you want to talk about serious drugs, go no further than the high-paying people who are comming into neighborhoods such as clinton hill. Its the people with money who buy the expensive, hardcore drugs such as cocaine or extacy, and ultimately contributing to the violent drug trade with much more at steak. I can speak from personal observation at pratt parties. The landlords and developers don't care about weather people are doing drugs, they care about who pays the highest rent. Go to clinton high school in the bronx, and smoking something as non hardcore as weed is considered taboo to most people. Go to any school in westchester, upstate, or long island, where people have more money, and you will see how much more prevalent hardcore drugs are, let alone weed and huge quantities of alchohol. So to point the finger at the people hanging out smoking weed as the cause of these problems, which do exist, is blaming the wrong person entirely.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:58 AM
 
125 posts, read 129,432 times
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Who said anything about death? If drug dealers are not supplying drugs, which include weed, then who is? If they are dealing in weed, coke, crack, meth, whatever...they are dealing drugs. You can try to justify one as harmless over the other, but you are buying from the same guy/gang/thugs that also sell everything else and are actively involved in the drug trade. I am sure you, your friends, and whomever think it is harmless, but in the bigger picture, you are contributing to a host of problems and funneling money to the drug rings that hold communities hostage. Regarding your assertion that rich people do harder drugs...thats all great and wonderful..but we are not talking about the rich..we are talking about the group of guys in the article complaining that they are being victimized because they are not allowed to smoke week in front of their building and the accusations that they are involved in a drug ring. The fact remains that they ARE doing drugs in front of the building...and therefore must be buying from drug dealers...so I ask..how are they not involved in a drug ring (the operative word being "ring", as they are not dealing but they are part of the circle aka "ring" of buyers, dealers, suppliers, etc that constitutes a drug ring). The cause of the problem is quite simple..STOP SMOKING WEED IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING and magically the problem that these guys have AND the owners will disappear. Do not waste your time trying to convince me that somehow smoking weed in front of a building (and all that goes along with that behavior) filled with families, kids, grandparents, vistors, people trying to live their lives, is harmless, welcome , normal, or ok.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:00 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 8,550,090 times
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Do not waste your time trying to convince me that somehow smoking weed in front of a building (and all that goes along with that behavior) filled with families, kids, grandparents, vistors, people trying to live their lives, is harmless, welcome , normal, or ok.
.................................................. ....................................

Agreed about the scenario described above not being harmless - actually more than that, it is outright harmful. And I'm not necessarily referring to any previous poster when I declare that neighborhood after neighborhood in NYC and across America has fallen hostage to individuals who started doing so-called "harmless" drugs and ended up destroying whole communities.

Yes, pot is not as harmful as crack when used, but it is nonetheless harmful - both to the user and to his/her family, friends, colleagues, co-workers, neighborhood, and to society in general. As a user, one unwittingly contributes to a larger circle - the drug gangs that supply, kill, extort, intimidate, destroy neighborhoods and lives.

The yuppies and high society folk who participate are also part of the vicious cycle and bear equal guilt and culpability.

The sad thing, however, is that they are financially endowed to try to extricate themselves from their calamity as they return home to their fancy neighborhoods while poor people in poor neighborhoods do not have that luxury.
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