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The last time I checked, most middle class people have (or aspire to) home ownership of a home that has more than 2 bedrooms, a family, 2.5 kids, decent schools, retirement savings, etc. $500,000 a year is not gonna get you that in Manhattan.
Manhattan is a tiny island in one of the richest nations in the world. If you want a 3 bedroom, 2 bedroom house with a yard, it's best to look in Queens, Staten Island, or NJ/LI/Westchester. For all practical purposes, only rich people live in apartments/condos (without roommates) of this size below 96th Street Street in Manhattan! I don't know why Americans - especially New Yorkers - are so dihonest with themselves about how much wealth they possess. Face it, even if you are married with a kid and your household income is $200,000, you are very well-off. Goals of having "middle class things" like a house and cars are silly to apply to the island of Manhattan when you are spending thousands of dollars on restaurants, entertainment, nannies, living in a highrise or handsome brownstone, etc. - things of which that couple living in their 2000 square foot ranch with 2.5 kids in in Iowa can only DREAM. It is a luxury in and of itself to be able to live in the most urban, exciting, and dynamic city in this country. That's why single professionals willingly pay $3,000 per month on a studio here when they could be buying a small mansion in some suburb in the forest 30 miles from Atlanta. If you want to talk about $500,000 - that buys you a FABULOUSLY WEALTHY lifestyle anywhere in the world, including in ANY neighborhood in Manhattan.
THis makes me feel good lol. Because sometimes I have this idea that 75%+ of the people I see walking around in manhattan make 150k or more.
They're brainwashing me!
I don't know why AceRock is endorsing this statement because most (as in the majority of) people in Mahattan (which extends beyond 96th Street for miles!) do NOT make $150,000 or more. There are thousands of people who do, though, and everyone knows this. They're not any less wealthy because thousands of people make that amount or far more in this city.
[quote=crisp444;4902028]Manhattan is a tiny island in one of the richest nations in the world. If you want a 3 bedroom, 2 bedroom house with a yard, it's best to look in Queens, Staten Island, or NJ/LI/Westchester. For all practical purposes, only rich people live in apartments/condos (without roommates) of this size below 96th Street Street in Manhattan!
Middle class is middle class is middle class.
Your point that only rich people can live without roommates in Manhattan proves my point that $500,000 is not enough to replicate a "middle class" lifestyle in Manhattan.
Face it, even if you are married with a kid and your household income is $200,000, you are very well-off.
Please make $200,000 a year before you can judge how "well-off" that makes you in Manhattan.
Manhattan is crawling with 25 year old lawyers, 25 year old I-bankers, and 30 year old doctors who all make $200,000+. A lot of them live in studios.
You know who lives in studios in most big U.S. cities?
Poor people.
Goals of having "middle class things" like a house and cars are silly to apply to the island of Manhattan when you are spending thousands of dollars on restaurants, entertainment, nannies, living in a highrise or handsome brownstone, etc. - things of which that couple living in their 2000 square foot ranch with 2.5 kids in in Iowa can only DREAM. It is a luxury in and of itself to be able to live in the most urban, exciting, and dynamic city in this country. That's why single professionals willingly pay $3,000 per month on a studio here when they could be buying a small mansion in some suburb in the forest 30 miles from Atlanta. If you want to talk about $500,000 - that buys you a FABULOUSLY WEALTHY lifestyle anywhere in the world, including in ANY neighborhood in Manhattan.
Middle class is gauged by what you earn, not by what you possess. So you tell me that investment bankers and lawyers earning $200,000 live in studios in Manhattan as if this is news to me? Then you tell me that poor people live in studios in other cities? You're just driving your point home even further that living in a studio is NOT incompatible with affluence in New York City. I have met fabulously wealthy people who live in very small apartments and spend thousands of dollars per month on fashion, entertainment, and food. Just how are they more "middle class" than some couple with 2.5 kids in suburban Atlanta who, on a household income of "merely" $100,000, have three cars and a large $250,000 house 30 miles from the city center? You're refusing to give up on the concept of the "American dream" of raising a family in a large house with 2.5 kids, a dog, and a yard and this is really warping your view of what it means to be "middle class," or "wealthy." As a single person living in Brooklyn Heights who will soon graduate from law school myself I know how absurdly ridiculous it is to consider a salary of $100,000+ to be "middle class" or "scraping by" when you can live very comfortably in a city in which just living there is a luxury of which people all over this country dream.
if you live in a good area in manhattan, like UWS, have two kids that go to school, have a car and a mortage, $500,000 we be a middle class.
if you are single, it is WAY above middle class.
The last time I checked, most middle class people have (or aspire to) home ownership of a home that has more than 2 bedrooms, a family, 2.5 kids, decent schools, retirement savings, etc. $500,000 a year is not gonna get you that in Manhattan.
Are we talking about just Manhattan?
THIS IS NOT MIDDLE CLASS IN NYC. The average person here doesn't own a place..and if they do, it's usually a condo to start. You're speaking of the middle class norm in smaller midwestern cities. Shoot, a lot of people in the UES don't even own.
This is about NYC as a whole. And 500,000 is DEFINITELY upper middle class, at the least, even in Manhattan.
if you live in a good area in manhattan, like UWS, have two kids that go to school, have a car and a mortage, $500,000 we be a middle class.
if you are single, it is WAY above middle class.
Again, middle class is gauged by what you earn, not by what you possess. Having a salary that is able to afford a classic six apartment, two private school tuition bills, a part-time nanny, vacations, a car, and the thousands of dollars spent on food and entertainment sounds pretty WEALTHY to me. Middle class people don't have such things in rich neighborhoods in Manhattan; they live either in very small apartments without luxury finishes or with roommates - OR they live in more middle class neighborhoods like Astoria, Bay Ridge, or Maspeth.
Are we talking about just Manhattan?
THIS IS NOT MIDDLE CLASS IN NYC. The average person here doesn't own a place..and if they do, it's usually a condo to start. You're speaking of the middle class norm in smaller midwestern cities. Shoot, a lot of people in the UES don't even own.
This is about NYC as a whole. And 500,000 is DEFINITELY upper middle class, at the least, even in Manhattan.
1. You are confusing "middle of the road" with "middle class".
2. "Middle class" is not some small midwestern ideal. There are plenty of people on the coasts (Boston, DC, Miami, SF, LA, etc.) who are "middle class".
$500,000 in Manhattan is the equivalent of having 200-300,000 in most other cities in the U.S. This salary is generally referred to as upper middle class in most cities. In other words they aren't quite rich, but your average person might mistakenly refer to them as such anyways.
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