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I'm still waiting to hear a good answer on this. Complain, complain, complain, but offer no solutions while the "problem" keeps going...
The "take over' throughout cities across the nation was so well planned and executed. If we could have created more protection of housing, stronger zoning laws, stronger renters rights. But the powers that be were just too damn powerful.
The "take over' throughout cities across the nation was so well planned and executed. If we could have created more protection of housing, stronger zoning laws, stronger renters rights. But the powers that be were just too damn powerful.
What "take over" ?
Also, renters' rights are so strong in NYC that people around the country laugh at how hard it is to actually evict a non-paying tenant here. You can't really get more protective than what the standard in NYC already is.
Also, renters' rights are so strong in NYC that people around the country laugh at how hard it is to actually evict a non-paying tenant here. You can't really get more protective than what the standard in NYC already is.
The "take over" by real estate developers, city planners of Chelsea, Harlem, Morningside Hts, Hell's Kitchen, Inwood, SoBRo (south Bronx), East Village, Lower East Side, Williamsburg, Bushwick, Fort Green, Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill, Park Slope, Sunset Park, Prospect Hts, Bed Stuy, Red Hook, and on and on.
I don't know about your experience in a rent controlled apt. but mine was terrible. We were in and out of court for 15 years because it was a rent controlled apt and the landlord wanted us out, if the ceiling fell down- we needed to fix it. The windows needed to be replaced cause there was wind blowing straight through them.
So eventually most people just can't take it anymore and they move out. They take a payout that will pay a market rate apt for about a year.
Neighborhoods are ruined, lives have been broken and displaced so I guess the rent laws weren't the right kind of strong.
I'm still waiting to hear a good answer on this. Complain, complain, complain, but offer no solutions while the "problem" keeps going...
One type of gentrification that I am not opposed to, is when someone buys a vacant brown stone or other house and rehabs it and their family moves in and they have market rate rentals. This can make things better on a whole block. Usually the new resident becomes an active member of the neighborhood even when they don't intend to. They get to know people. I have seen children in the neighborhoods get tuturing and other assistance from the newcomers, when long time residents have written them off. This and other positive attention from the newcomers that are able to assist others and make a difference in their communities. This I think shows that you should not place all same income people in one area.
I don't have any solutions that won't resemble socialism in some form. One thing I do know is that people are being displaced and not only put in shelters but families are placed in market rate apt buildings with the city paying these rents and the families placed in them are still part of the shelter system. Some of the families actually like the placement, they are living in some of the best places that they have ever lived in their lives. They learn a new way of life. Some wish that these temporary apartments were permanent.
We are all paying for this upside down applecart situation that these families are in. Because these are not just poor welfare recipients, alot are working people with lower incomes. Some loose their jobs because of the situation. Because it takes awhile to get a semi permanent shelter apt in a regular type apt building if they can at all. Maybe if some type of assistance could be given to close the gap between the old and new rents they could keep their jobs and even if they can manage to keep them, we all wouldn't have to pay for the shelter type apartment that is usually much more costly than the gap between old and new rents. Of course each situation would have to be examined carefully.
Of course others have much better ideas than this and they will post.
Well, Its not easy, but I for one think that rental laws are NOT tough enough (As someone else pointed out that endured so much harassment in their rent controlled apartment) Even though NY has stronger laws than most U.S., our market is different, more crowded, and more in demand, so the laws need to reflect this and be even more protective.
Second, there still is a lot of land to be developed, while I'm not a Bloomberg "Fan", I think he has made AMAZING progress on middle income housing.
There need to be an initiative like there was in the 1950's with public housing. Serious expansion of public housing so that we can get rid of all these expensive shelters and put these people immediately into housing which uses less overall resources, and more federal dollars instead.
Sadly, the solution is largely federal. Wages are Stagnant (from free-trade, globalist policies, and unregulated capitalism), What we need is greater redistribution of wealth in the nation as a whole, NOT necessarily socialism, BUT at least a return to highly regulated capitalism, where there simply aren't many rich people, just a few, and a nation full of hard working middle class with fair and just pay, decent benefits, and TAXES/TARIFFS that protect their jobs from being moved overseas. We should NOT have to compete with Guatemalan working conditions. Our government should protect us from this unfair competition....or We will BECOME Guatemala, or at least meet them halfway. That is where the unregulated free market leads.
The problem within the U.S. is that when the federal government doesn't do its job, the states compete to the bottom, and "New York" employers threaten to move to "Alabama" where they can pay less and treat their workers like dirt. So when the Fed doesn't step in. New Yorkers are supposed to compete and say "no wait, we can lower our standards and treat our employees WORSE than dirt" just to get companies back. Same with the wealthy always threatening to take their butts elsewhere, PA or CT etc for lower taxes, so everyone lowers taxes. So the states compete, lower taxes, worse pay, than less investment in social safety nets and housing, thus gentrification sets in, and people fight over limited housing.
I don't think NY can solve the problem on its own, but it can at least address the problem and make it less extreme.
Maybe we NEED to finally recognize that Housing and Big-screen TV Sets aren't the same. One is a Need, and One is a Want. Besides the shelter system, when New York finally sees beyond just that and Genuinely considers decent Housing as a Human Right rather than a luxury, to the FULLEST extent of the law I believe the problem will be close to solved. I wouldn't cal it socialism, just compassion. (Socialism would be eradication of the private market and private property all together)
It is apparent that world leaders WILL do ANYTHING to save capitalism and bank solvency. I Mean ANYTHING, as much debt necessary, as many bills printed, they will do (Ill say it again.....wait for it ..... ANYTHING) If we were to take that enthusiasm with decent safe affordable housing, or wages, pensions, and social security we could do it. This bailout shows that the U.S CAN do whatever it needs to address an "Emergency"... So.... Consider housing a "National Emergency"... Problem Solved
The problem is OUr government says that bankers are the priority, not people. A Wall Street Executive taking a huge financial loss is the national priority, And by gosh We'll make SURE these idiots earn atleat $400,000 a year with our taxes while contributing nothing to society, living off their corporate welfare check every year instead of getting a REAL job (So that they don't cry too much at being "poor" as a result of their financial greed and idiocy, BUT An elderly widow in Akron, Ohio shoots herself in the chest while the sheriffs are outside to evict her from her home in old age, and government says, eh, sure its serious, but not an emergency. This is the root of our problem as a nation, and it affects our city greatly, and it is NOT easily fixed.... Unfortunately
Last edited by DesiArnez6; 10-20-2008 at 12:11 AM..
Hmm...I have missed alot but here are a few comments. Typically those in RENT CONTROLLED apts do not understand that in 2008 your rent of $475 for a 3 bedroom apt in which7 family memebers live is not enough to support the operating costs of a building, let alone debt servicing (aka mortgage payments, taxes). If you have a building full of people on RENT CONTROL with these types of rents, which is common, how does an owner afford to repair the ceiling, replace windows, give sufficient (if any) heat/hot water? It is simply NOT possible, and anyone that understands the concept of a budget, and taking in enough to meet your bills, would understand. Furthermore, the Tenant laws in NYC are very good, and anyone that believes they need to be stronger is insane, plans to be a lifetime renter in NYC, or is under Rent Control! No rationale person believes Tenants rights needs to be stronger when it takes well over 6 months to evict a Tenant from an apt who has paid $0 (as in nothing), can drag it through the courts for another 2 years making paultry rent payments (as in 25 cents on the dollar), all the while having court costs paid for by various Tenant rights organizations. And what becomes of the LL? Who cares..he is evil right? What some people see as gentrification, in most cases it is actually a revitalization...but the word "gentrification" is used/abused to get attention and manipulate politicians/media/community to pass their own agenda. Beware of those shouting gentrification, as they typically are ONLY interested in keeping THEIR rent cheap at the expense of everything and everyone else.
SobroGuy you are a landlord and I understand your position. My parents were landlords and these reasons that you state are some of the very reasons I have not become a NYC landlord. I experienced what it is like for someone to not only, not pay you rent, but to deliberately destroy your property, while they stay on your property for free and you have the fight of your life trying to get them out. It also does cost a lot to keep your property maintained.
I think that you can have revitalization without gentrification. The way we are describing gentrification on this thread at least. I am all for revitalization. I realize that rent control is still around but it is phasing out. I also realize that since it is not gone, it is causing a lot of problems for the landlords that are stuck with the situation. They are not landlords just to be kind they want to make a profit. Otherwise why bother.
This also needs to be examined. There are landlords stuck with low paying rent control and rent stabilized tenants. Even though I support rent stabilization, I realize that sometimes the amount of rent collected from the units doesn't cut it for the landlord to meet the expenses.
So then we have to come up with solutions that require gov't intervention because individuals alone can do it. We have some like projects, subsidized rents and subsidized coops. I favor the subsidized coops because with ownership comes responsibility and pride. As people move up the ladder they can pay more toward the coop easing the subsidy part of the ownership.
Yeah I agree DAS..and the city really has been going above and beyond the calling of duty (Bloomberg that is) in expanding affordable housing in a way that has not been seen for the past 40 years. The city is really taking it seriously and has already built more than half of the proposed 165,000 (wow!) affordable housing units it has promised....which has not only provided the obvious benefits for working/middle class residents clamoring for quality affordable housing, it has also provided huge investments to communities that have lacked it, has spurred other retail/commercial investments to cater to the new residents, helped decrease crime, and has really changed the mindset of residents in NYC. They see all the new investments and concerns in their community and are seeing value where they did not see before...and are caring about their community more IMO. I believe rent control and rentstabilization served a valuable purpose, as did the housing projects, but both need to be adjusted to serve our current needs and not just cling to policies just because that's the way it has always been. Until the city is flexible enough to adjust policies to changing conditions, we will be stuck in a rut where housing projects are no longer serving residents or the community but are a scourge/detriment to neighborhoods, where rent control/rent stabilization are no longer protecting Tenants but forcing LLs into bankruptcy. If we cannot change with the times, we cannot move forward in a healthy way, our communities will suffer, and the city will sink. Although I believe the city is changing in general for the better, and taking steps to ensure everyone has a seat at the table, until the city is able to open up the housing projects more to the working/middle class, much of the progress will be stunted.
SobroGuy you are a landlord and I understand your position. My parents were landlords and these reasons that you state are some of the very reasons I have not become a NYC landlord. I experienced what it is like for someone to not only, not pay you rent, but to deliberately destroy your property, while they stay on your property for free and you have the fight of your life trying to get them out. It also does cost a lot to keep your property maintained.
I think that you can have revitalization without gentrification. The way we are describing gentrification on this thread at least. I am all for revitalization. I realize that rent control is still around but it is phasing out. I also realize that since it is not gone, it is causing a lot of problems for the landlords that are stuck with the situation. They are not landlords just to be kind they want to make a profit. Otherwise why bother.
This also needs to be examined. There are landlords stuck with low paying rent control and rent stabilized tenants. Even though I support rent stabilization, I realize that sometimes the amount of rent collected from the units doesn't cut it for the landlord to meet the expenses.
So then we have to come up with solutions that require gov't intervention because individuals alone can do it. We have some like projects, subsidized rents and subsidized coops. I favor the subsidized coops because with ownership comes responsibility and pride. As people move up the ladder they can pay more toward the coop easing the subsidy part of the ownership.
Interesting observations, DAS. I believe that we've got to have an income-based situation when we revitalize, gentrify, whatever term we use. By that I mean we must provide for those at the lowest rung of the ladder. A landlord must cover costs. A really low income person - a senior, disabled, or someone doing a menial job, also needs a roof over his/her head.
So what are the choices when the developers come in? One is to let everything go market and say to the poor and indigent, you're on your own. The second option is to provide subsidies that are need and income based so that the landlord can cover his costs and make a decent profit.
Obviously, somebody is picking up the tab. Guess who? Well, as taxpayers we can't sit around and have our money support individuals who trash owner's properties and we do nothing about it. There's also got to be punitive action directed at those who abuse our generosity, our caring for our fellow human beings. Perhaps civil and criminal penalties - and finally a withdrawal of the differential awarded to the violators to subsidize them.
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