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HP,
1. we aren't talking about the 'most destroyed nabe'. i'm talking about which area had the most crime. of course the south bronx (or the bronx in general) was THE most destroyed boro far and away in the 70's and 80's.
2. never said anything about murder rates. just raw numbers. but the south bronx was still pretty close. so i'm sure there was really no difference in the south bronx (CRIME wise) and north brooklyn. the bronx and brooklyn were probably the most dangerous boroughs in the city. so i'll make this my last post regarding brooklyn vs. the bronx. just wanted to get my point across to the people (not you) who believe north brooklyn never had a high crime rate.
HPBX that was a wonderful post.
GDK your assertion that Brooklyn North was worse in terms of crime than the south Bronx is ridiculous. We have crime numbers for 1990 and here is what they are for certain neighborhoods, since HPBX gave the whole area.
Mott Haven: 72 precinct murders (77,124 pop = 93 murders per 100,000)
Hunts Point: 44 precinct murders (39,443 pop = 112 murders per 100,000)
Morrisania: 54 precinct murders (57,162 pop = 94 murders per 100,000)
For your information, the above three neighborhoods where the neighborhoods most likely for you be murdered in. Hunts Point had the highest murder rate in the city, this while covering a tiny area. It's amazing how bad it was. The only neighborhood worse than Mott Haven and Morrisania was Central Harlem, which had a gaudy 108 murder rate.
East NY: 109 precinct murder (161,350 pop = 68 per 100,000)
Brownsville: 60 precinct murder (84,923 pop = 71 per 100,00)
Yeah, North Brooklyn was bad. They were on par with West Bronx neighborhoods like Highbridge-Concourse, and Morris/Uni Heights-Fordham/Tremont. But the west Bronx was still a little worse. However, Brooklyn did not compare to the south Bronx hoods. If your argument is that Brooklyn had worse totals, then with East NY obviously. It was twice as big as Mott Haven, quadruple the size of Hunts Point, and triple the size of Morrisania. So how do you expect them to have higher totals than East NY? That is why murder rate is a better comparison. Anyways, despite the fact that Brownsville had more people, Mott Haven had more raw totals than B-ville. The 46th and 44th also had higher totals than any north BK precinct (other than ENY). So even if you want to go there, the Bronx had higher totals than any BK hood sans ENY. But again, that's not a fair comparison.
So yes there was a crime difference between the south Bronx and north Brooklyn. It was a sizeable one aswell. Only central Harlem can be said to have been as bad. North Brooklyn compares to the west Bronx, not the south Bronx. Nothing did.
The whole city was bad anyhows. But clearly some areas where on a different pedestal.
BTW, Browsnville in 2008 had more homicides than Brownsville in 1995. So in that regard, Brownsville is worse now than it was mid 90's and early 2000's.
Hmm well lets make this a unofficial poll what do you guys think is the worst part of the city
(Crime, Cleanliness, graffiti, drug activity, etc) Uptown, South Bronx, West Bronx, North Brooklyn, or the East Elmhurst-Corona area.
I think it's hard to say which is worse than another. But I will vouch for the west Bronx that there is a whole bunch of drugs here.
I want to know how they get their murder rate #'s because they seem a little off. I know the Lower East Side was bad, but I'm not too sure it had the highest murder rate in the city. But Central Harlem was terrible, and I'm suprised to see West Harlem so high.
Dominicans were running the drug game back then, as even he admits it. Also Washington Heights in the 160's was a drug factory.
And of course I expected to see 183rd st in there somewhere.
I want to know how they get their murder rate #'s because they seem a little off. I know the Lower East Side was bad, but I'm not too sure it had the highest murder rate in the city. But Central Harlem was terrible, and I'm suprised to see West Harlem so high.
Dominicans were running the drug game back then, as even he admits it. Also Washington Heights in the 160's was a drug factory.
And of course I expected to see 183rd st in there somewhere.
I'm not sold on their rates though.
I was thinking the same thing but keep in mind that back then there was a smaller population. Yes they did and still do on W 183St its a open air drug market with drugs all day, and crime all night.
I looked at the community district numbers, which many times have the same boundaries as the precinct and I could see where they get the LES and West Harlem, since the CD's for them encompass many more neighborhoods. So the actual population in those places would be smaller.
But for the 41st, the community district encompass the exact same area as the precinct. They have the population number for 1990 to be 39,443 which would be equal to the precinct population. The precinct in 1990 had 44 homicides and that would give you a rate of 112 per 100,000 and not 79.
yea, now i know. the bronx had a higher crime rate. but listen, a murder rate of almost 80 isn't that far from a murder rate of about 100. i'm sure it wouldn't be any less intimidating walking down the streets of brooklyn in the 80's. thats what i meant when i said theres probably no difference crime wise.
its hard to believe nyc only had a murder rate of 27 back then. thats actually not alot at all, especially when you take into account that there are many cities today (post crack era) that are higher than that. i thought it would be much higher, considering how dangerous it seemed back then.
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