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I am not sure yet, but pretty much anywhere I can afford, I will be pushing someone out that can afford even less than me.
See, there is this whole slew of people (not from here) caught b/t the lower class NYC natives who have lived here forever and the really wealthy yuppie people who can afford the high rents. I am not rich enough to be a yuppie, not lazy enough to be a hipster,and what I am living on is equivalent to middle class in NYC. I am white and I did not grow up in NYC. So where can I live where I can afford, I am not pushing out someone who has less than me, and I am not hated b/c I am an evil white gentrifyer??
Assuming you are not one of the posters that believes I have no right to live anywhere in NYC, where would you suggest I live?
I am asking you where you are planning to move to because it concerns me that you have to leave Harlem which is one of the cheaper areas of the city. I consider the city all 5 boros. I'm always checking the real estate sites and from what I see there is not much out there that is cheaper than Harlem.
You are representative of so many people long time residents, new residents, people that have been pushed into Harlem from other sections that became over priced a few years ago. Lets say you find a more affordable spot, how long will that last? Then how long can this game be played?
While I am not opposed to the luxury housing that went up on the vacant lots because it brought in more services to the neighborhood, I do think that some housing for working/middle class like yourself could have went up in Harlem at the same time. I think more should go up.
The only good aspect of this housing shortage for the working middle class, (there seems to be no shortage for the rich), is that there is less racial, and ethnic segregation now. People have and will continue to learn to live together.
I have no idea where to go. I see that there are some new renovated 1 and 2 bedroom apts in Bedstuy for 1200-1500. It's 20 minutes to Manhattan. I don't know if you would be seen as an evil gentrifyer though. You could probably just walk around with a sign "Just another NYer trying to survive". You would not be alone though in the area. Good luck with your search.
Rudbeckia I recommend going out and doing some legwork in the boroughs and see where you feel comfortable. I would seriously ignore any idea that you will be painted as an "evil gentrifyer." This is not small town, USA...you can live darn whereever you please in this city regardless of what the neighbors may think...we are in NYC..they can all kiss your you know what and they will get over it...and they always do. I would not for a second be worried what anyone thinks b/c no matter what you do there will always be the naysayers...do what is best for you....and you will be happy. Regarding where you want to live..if you are looking for affordability check out the Bronx. We will be having meet-ups in Parkchester and Bedford Park, two communities that are know for diversity, affordability, safety, and family oriented. That would be a good start.
Exactly, plus people don't realize that it goes both ways. What if the residents of the UES tried to block people making below 100K from coming? What if the residents of Midwood tried to stop Gentiles from coming? What if the residents of Staten Island barred Blacks? Being in a neighborhood doesn't give you the right to say who lives there. I believe the last group to advocate that was the KKK. Plus, as much as I heart the poor/middle class/immigrants, they don't have sole ownership of the claim to being "real" NYers. Without the rich of Manhattan, there would be no base for the Operas, Museums, Theatures, Clubs and Resturants that make NYC a world capital. If for anything, you could argue we live on their backs, not the other way around.
Not a whole lot of people are saying that "outsiders" shouldn't come in. A whole bunch of folks, however, is saying, "Hey, leave room for me too. I've been here for decades, Some of my neighbors were born here, don't push me out when the free market raises rents. A rising tide lifts all boats and my rent bill goes up with yours. Yeah, I know, I now have increased amenities, some of which I'll never use, but yeah, it's good to have new things, but please I'm on a fixed income, I'm a senior, my sister works for the city and doesn't get a year end bonus, my uncle is on disability, my cousin just wants to spend the rest of his life in the tenement in which he was born. He can't afford to move to any other borough/area in the city. Why, he can't even move upstate or downsate. Just can't afford it. Can't afford a car to drive in, can't afford Amtrak, Metro North. Just barely covers his rent and food. No discretionary income left after putting in 40 a week for the state."
"What are you gonna do with us all? We don't ask for 100% subsidy for wanting to remain in the areas which we carried for generations when crime, corruption, drugs, prostitution were all around us. We withstood the challenges, dodged the bullets, sometimes got beaten up by cops when they pursued the bad guys indiscriminately and lumped us all as the villain because we live in a certain neighborhood."
So you see, that's how a lot of longtime residents evaluate the situation. There's fear, anxiety. Change is, however, inevitable and the hipsters followed by yuppies followed by average middle income newcomers cannot and should not all be lumped together as carpetbaggers out to make a quick dollar then move on to another ripe target area. Let's not be afraid to use terms for fear of political incorrectness. You can call it revitalization, gentrification, whatever, it's all good to go, it's all about making every neighborhood in NYC a place to be, to live, to raise families. No, we can't segregate a neighborhood by excluding fresh talent, people who work hard and have nice salaries. This is America, you're supposed to be able to live where you can afford.
Decent landlords who risk their capital and provide housing shoudn't all be scapegoated. Let's leave that for the slumlords only - of which there are way too many. Newcomers who come in to live, contribute, pay taxes, and bring along better restaurants, stores, doctors, medical care, other amenities will help overall for us all to enjoy better shared facilities. It's not all about Jacuzzis and on site saunas, doormen and massage parlors to soothe the well heeled after a day on Wall Street making another million off of some futures contract which hurt another poor farmer in Boise. There'll be enhanced shared community improvements for all to enjoy.
However, let's not create a new kind of de facto segregation where the poor longtime residents are priced out and the area becomes unwittingly segregated anyway. Let's find a way to not scare off oldtimers in the process. If we have to subsidise the truly needy, maybe we'll all gain in the long run by having a truly diversified NYC as a beacon to the world, a model of a city that is not only the financial center of the world but a city that knows how to balance growth and progress with caring for those who sustained decaying neighborhoods when no one else would. To be sure, they continue to be part of the economic engines that run the city, working in lower level jobs but indispensable to NYC being the great metropolis that it is and can continue to be.
I am asking you where you are planning to move to because it concerns me that you have to leave Harlem which is one of the cheaper areas of the city. I consider the city all 5 boros. I'm always checking the real estate sites and from what I see there is not much out there that is cheaper than Harlem.
You are representative of so many people long time residents, new residents, people that have been pushed into Harlem from other sections that became over priced a few years ago. Lets say you find a more affordable spot, how long will that last? Then how long can this game be played?
While I am not opposed to the luxury housing that went up on the vacant lots because it brought in more services to the neighborhood, I do think that some housing for working/middle class like yourself could have went up in Harlem at the same time. I think more should go up.
The only good aspect of this housing shortage for the working middle class, (there seems to be no shortage for the rich), is that there is less racial, and ethnic segregation now. People have and will continue to learn to live together.
I have no idea where to go. I see that there are some new renovated 1 and 2 bedroom apts in Bedstuy for 1200-1500. It's 20 minutes to Manhattan. I don't know if you would be seen as an evil gentrifyer though. You could probably just walk around with a sign "Just another NYer trying to survive". You would not be alone though in the area. Good luck with your search.
I am in lower central harlem near lenox The area is kind of block by block in terms of exspensive vs affordable. I am right near central park though, and I would be really sad to leave that. Its like my back yard. I would like to find somewhere that is around 1300-1500/month with utilites, or at least most utilites. So I know thats higher than many people can pay, but its really not that high for Manahattan.
I pay 1800 right now with utilties and in no way can go higher, at least right now.
But I guess my point in all this is, where as it sucks that I will eventually get priced out, I dont expect the goverment to come in and fix it for me. But I am a lot better off than some, I understand that and I am fine with the goverment using my tax dollars to help people that really need it.
But too much (there should be some) goverment control over the housing prices (i.e. picking and choosing who is more worthy based on how long you have lived somewhere, or where you were born) I think is dangerous territory.
I know that most people don't want gov't intervention but it seems to be the only way that most people that have civil service type jobs can get anything. Even apt complexes like Parkchester is a type of Gov't intervention.
I agree that picking and choosing on how long you have lived somewhere or where you were born is dangerous territory.
Not a whole lot of people are saying that "outsiders" shouldn't come in. A whole bunch of folks, however, is saying, "Hey, leave room for me too. I've been here for decades, Some of my neighbors were born here, don't push me out when the free market raises rents. A rising tide lifts all boats and my rent bill goes up with yours. Yeah, I know, I now have increased amenities, some of which I'll never use, but yeah, it's good to have new things, but please I'm on a fixed income, I'm a senior, my sister works for the city and doesn't get a year end bonus, my uncle is on disability, my cousin just wants to spend the rest of his life in the tenement in which he was born. He can't afford to move to any other borough/area in the city. Why, he can't even move upstate or downsate. Just can't afford it. Can't afford a car to drive in, can't afford Amtrak, Metro North. Just barely covers his rent and food. No discretionary income left after putting in 40 a week for the state."
"What are you gonna do with us all? We don't ask for 100% subsidy for wanting to remain in the areas which we carried for generations when crime, corruption, drugs, prostitution were all around us. We withstood the challenges, dodged the bullets, sometimes got beaten up by cops when they pursued the bad guys indiscriminately and lumped us all as the villain because we live in a certain neighborhood."
So you see, that's how a lot of longtime residents evaluate the situation. There's fear, anxiety. Change is, however, inevitable and the hipsters followed by yuppies followed by average middle income newcomers cannot and should not all be lumped together as carpetbaggers out to make a quick dollar then move on to another ripe target area. Let's not be afraid to use terms for fear of political incorrectness. You can call it revitalization, gentrification, whatever, it's all good to go, it's all about making every neighborhood in NYC a place to be, to live, to raise families. No, we can't segregate a neighborhood by excluding fresh talent, people who work hard and have nice salaries. This is America, you're supposed to be able to live where you can afford.
Decent landlords who risk their capital and provide housing shoudn't all be scapegoated. Let's leave that for the slumlords only - of which there are way too many. Newcomers who come in to live, contribute, pay taxes, and bring along better restaurants, stores, doctors, medical care, other amenities will help overall for us all to enjoy better shared facilities. It's not all about Jacuzzis and on site saunas, doormen and massage parlors to soothe the well heeled after a day on Wall Street making another million off of some futures contract which hurt another poor farmer in Boise. There'll be enhanced shared community improvements for all to enjoy.
However, let's not create a new kind of de facto segregation where the poor longtime residents are priced out and the area becomes unwittingly segregated anyway. Let's find a way to not scare off oldtimers in the process. If we have to subsidise the truly needy, maybe we'll all gain in the long run by having a truly diversified NYC as a beacon to the world, a model of a city that is not only the financial center of the world but a city that knows how to balance growth and progress with caring for those who sustained decaying neighborhoods when no one else would. To be sure, they continue to be part of the economic engines that run the city, working in lower level jobs but indispensable to NYC being the great metropolis that it is and can continue to be.
But again, where one neighborhood rises, another falls. I don't believe the hype about NYC being all millionaires within 20 years. I see more and more immigrants moving in everyday. What I do see is people who have a sense of entitlement who feel as though they have more of a right to be in a certain nabe than others. I listened to my relatives give stories about people getting "Pushed Out" back in the 50s and 60s. Only then, it wasn't money, but a wave of crime and arson instead. Who looked out for them?
Let's face it, people are upset because it's whites with money. SuperMario has pretty much said as such. If we're going to be un-PC, then let's stop the games right there.
I know, I am not a tenant, but there is something in place there that keep its at an affordable level, like some of the other similar complexes. That is the gov't intervention I am speaking of.
I think you nailed it Miles. I agree overall with your statement. I also agree with Shizzles, that the bottom line is..people are upset because it is whites with money coming in and "stealing" homes from "innocent" people of color. There is a very negative view of whites in these segregated communities, much of which is well-earned by the way. But because it is whites with money...somehow there is something evil about it...and that is very sad indeed. And by whites with money, I am not talking about the wealthy, MOST times it is just "regular" white people who need a place to live too but are villafied by ignoramouses who are uneducated and powerless....these newbies to the community are an easy target for all their problems and self-loathing.
Parchester is at market rates, it's not limited equity co-op or Mitchell-Lama, and it's a converted rental complex. It had some rough years after it was purchased and allowed to decline, before it reorganized into two condominium complexes. It's affordable because it's on the upswing, and the rental units were sold to investors, not government-sponsorship.
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