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Old 12-11-2008, 12:52 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 11,669,352 times
Reputation: 1701

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
And obviously you vote Republican, am I right? Blame the victim and all that. Did you grow up with a mother who is 18 and possibly on drugs (as that's what many 18 year old kids do)? Did you grow up in the projects? Did you go to a crappy school? Did you experience racism (doubtful since you love to point out how white you are)? Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes and see where your thinking might lead you differently. General comment: This is a broader issue of the origins of poverty and how to get out of it. This is unfortunately NOT unique to Puerto Ricans.
No, you're wrong. I vote Democrat and support social spending on TANF, WIC, Medicair, and Medicaid - things that are often called "welfare" in shorthand. I have met too many people who grew up in poor, dysfunctional families who have turned out successful to buy into the argument that being poor and/or black keeps you from success in this country. Some people face greater challenges than others, but in 2008 being born poor/and or black just isn't a good enough excuse to not rise up to the challenge of making yourself an upstanding citizen who can provide for yourself and your family. I support "welfare" programs to help out people who would not have food or shelter; I just blame some of the people who receive these services while doing nothing to better themselves. And no, crying "woe is me; I am being discriminated against and held down" is not unique to Nuyoricans; some people of all races/ethnicites cry the same thing.

It's makes for interesting discussion to theorize about the "plight" of Nuyoricans as a group, but the first place I look for an explanation for failure/non-success is to an individual person himself.

Last edited by Viralmd; 12-11-2008 at 12:54 PM.. Reason: Orphaned comment

 
Old 12-11-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,240,149 times
Reputation: 3629
I think that what the OP presented was valid. You can definitely argue whether there's merit behind it, but the perception is out there. There is a general perception that the Puerto-Rican community in New York, specifically the Nuyorican subset has underachieved and some even believe they are in a state of disrepair. These are the very same things you hear out on the street, granted out on the street its less edited. I've had these discussions with Puerto-Ricans/Nuyoricans. Many have said the same things being said in this thread. Overall the sentiment is that the the community is not doing well.

I've had the same type of discussions with Dominicans and Dominican-Americans, and quite a few are worried about our younger generations. They are afraid we will take steps back instead of forward.

I'm sure these kind of discussions also occur in the African-American communities.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:04 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 8,571,760 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
I think that what the OP presented was valid. You can definitely argue whether there's merit behind it, but the perception is out there. There is a general perception that the Puerto-Rican community in New York, specifically the Nuyorican subset has underachieved and some even believe they are in a state of disrepair. These are the very same things you hear out on the street, granted out on the street its less edited. I've had these discussions with Puerto-Ricans/Nuyoricans. Many have said the same things being said in this thread. Overall the sentiment is that the the community is not doing well.

I've had the same type of discussions with Dominicans and Dominican-Americans, and quite a few are worried about our younger generations. They are afraid we will take steps back instead of forward.

I'm sure these kind of discussions also occur in the African-American communities.

My experiences are the same - when talking to relatives (through marriage of family members) who are Puerto Rican - from the island as well as born in the city, and when talking to Dominicans (again through marriage of family members). I also hear similar sentiments around town in my capacity as writer interviewing people on diverse issues and even as a regular New Yorker talking to other New Yorkers in informal conversation.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:07 PM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,077,948 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
No, you're wrong. I vote Democrat and support social spending on TANF, WIC, Medicair, and Medicaid - things that are often called "welfare" in shorthand. I have met too many people who grew up in poor, dysfunctional families who have turned out successful to buy into the argument that being poor and/or black keeps you from success in this country. Some people face greater challenges than others, but in 2008 being born poor/and or black just isn't a good enough excuse to not rise up to the challenge of making yourself an upstanding citizen who can provide for yourself and your family. I support "welfare" programs to help out people who would not have food or shelter; I just blame some of the people who receive these services while doing nothing to better themselves. And no, crying "woe is me; I am being discriminated against and held down" is not unique to Nuyoricans; some people of all races/ethnicites cry the same thing.

It's makes for interesting discussion to theorize about the "plight" of Nuyoricans as a group, but the first place I look for an explanation for failure/non-success is to an individual person himself.
I like most others find it irritating to go to work every day while others sit on their fat behinds expecting handouts. However, we must accept that fact that those who make it out of deep poverty, whether black, Spanish or from Mars, it is the EXCEPTION rather than the RULE. Those who make it out are special, or had some particular experience that moved them somehow, or were just lucky by being put in touch with some job or person that got them to re-think the lifestyle of their background. Its easy to point to the well off blacks or Spanish and note how "see? they did it so why can't you?". If YOU can do it, then why can't all other [blacks] [puerto ricans] [mexicans] [native americans] [poor "white trash"] do it. Indeed, why not? Why do the majority of poor people stay in that cycle?
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Wethersfield, CT
1,273 posts, read 4,159,694 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
Yes I agree, but teaching spanish is a responsibility of the parents(if they want to...) not the school system. Many 2nd and 3rd generation Italians in NYC still speak Italian, same with Russians and Latinos.
The children understand it, but don't speak it fluently. You're right, it is the choice of the parents. I'm raising my children in an English speaking society so that is what we speak at home. I speak spanish fluently, but the only time that I speak it is when i have to.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Wethersfield, CT
1,273 posts, read 4,159,694 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
OK so you think that they don't they have mixed while many of them use the N word and talk like them and dress like them and have mixed rap in their songs if that is not culture then I don't know what it is?
Culture: relegion, music, language, art, etc.
So yes they have mixed culture I have never heard the word N in PR.
And Latin rap isn't that a mix of black culture or is rap a white culture?
I realy don't understand your question.
I was asking the poster what their opinion was of african american culture.

Rap music is a different culture in itself. There are people of many backgrounds that listen to rap music. it doesn't have a color stamped on it imo...there are plenty of white kids that listen to it as well.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:33 PM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,077,948 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leilani Vasquez View Post
I was asking the poster what their opinion was of african american culture.

Rap music is a different culture in itself. There are people of many backgrounds that listen to rap music. it doesn't have a color stamped on it imo...there are plenty of white kids that listen to it as well.
LOL just because white suburban kids listen to rap music does not mean its part of the white culture. And just cause puerto ricans have many similarities with the African-American culture in that they often live in the same areas/buildings, listen to the same music (til they get old enough to switch their tastes to SALSA--often in their late 30s), dress similar, and live the NYC ghetto lifestyle, does not mean they are not very different as well. I hung out almost exclusively with blacks for about a decade, and then around the same amount of time with Puerto Ricans, and believe me from an outsider's (white girl's) point of view, they are VERY different. Though from the outside looking in, apparently from this thread, people think they're the same..
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:39 PM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,492,772 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
Wow, that is sad how you feel about a whole group of people, especially coming from the same background. I cannot stand how people on this forum think it is more than fine to downgrade whole groups of people simply because many members of the group live in poverty. It is very difficult to get out of poverty, and it is interesting and helpful to figure out why, but stop hating on poor people and thinking its OK. And stop grouping all people in your minds as lazy or criminals. Some of my PR family members are poor, but they're none of the things you suggest about them. Obviously in your mind Nuyoricans are only deserving of respect if they are "profesionals" [sic].
Is a feeling not only by me but by many in Puerto Rico.
Second every nuyorican has to same choices as everybody else, also they have the same opportunity that everybody else.
So my question is why only 10% go to college vs 24% in P.R.?
Do you think that Puerto Rican in P.R. are rich? even you said they were poor. And I dont hate Nuyoricans, I do hate the stereotype.
Also I havent said all nuyorican are bad or criminals...
But some are.
Nuyorican are only deserving of respect if they are good and decent people. Like I have said, some are and some arent.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Wethersfield, CT
1,273 posts, read 4,159,694 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
LOL just because white suburban kids listen to rap music does not mean its part of the white culture. And just cause puerto ricans have many similarities with the African-American culture in that they often live in the same areas/buildings, listen to the same music (til they get old enough to switch their tastes to SALSA--often in their late 30s), dress similar, and live the NYC ghetto lifestyle, does not mean they are not very different as well. I hung out almost exclusively with blacks for about a decade, and then around the same amount of time with Puerto Ricans, and believe me from an outsider's (white girl's) point of view, they are VERY different. Though from the outside looking in, apparently from this thread, people think they're the same..
You're misunderstanding what i said!

I said that hip hop and rap music is in a culture of itself.
 
Old 12-11-2008, 01:43 PM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,492,772 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
I lived in Bermuda during the time of a referendum on whether or not to seek independence from the UK. This idea was soundly defeated. The island remains part of the UK, however, they do not, as far as I know, receive any financial or other support from the UK. So they are a colonial place like the others cited (DR, PR, Haiti) but financially they do VERY well because they have an international reinsurance industry and a tourist industry (which has died down a lot since its hay day in the 50's). PR also has tax benefits similar to offshore domiciles like Bermuda, but somehow it hasn't helped much obviously. So yeah, I'm not sure their issues are necessarily tied to not being independent.
P.R. has plenty of tax breaks, and ways for an american company in P.R. avoid Federal tax, but when they can go next door(Republica Dominicana) and waste less money in salaries.
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