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Old 12-09-2008, 11:01 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,473,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeboy25 View Post
Before anyone says anything like I'm trying to start crap, I am not.

Let me start off by saying that I currenty live in Tennessee but originally from New Jersey (specifically Trenton) and my fam is Puerto Rican and proud to be. Unfortunately, one thing I notice when I go back to Jersey and visit NYC and read all the statistics is how poor off all the Puerto Ricans tend to be (specifically Nuyoricans if we wanna specifiy). Not just in New York but also in places like New Jersey, Philly, Connecticut and Massachusetts.

I understand that when we came to the Northeast back in the 40s, 50s and 60s, most of the factories Ricans worked in closed shortly after a lot of us got hired, causing a lot of unemployment. However, if you look at Cuban Americans (who tend to be more blue collar and slightly less educated than in NJ than in South Florida), they worked in a lot of manufactoring jobs and the majority tend to be much better off the average Puerto Ricans in NYC's metro area. Even African Americans, who face a lot of social issues in their community, still tend to do better than Puerto Ricans and have higher rates of education, income and health.

The reason why I am bringing all of this up is because when I go back to New Jersey every summer and see all the dilapilated rowhouses in South Trenton (where a lot of the PRicans in Trenton live) or can't go eat at a Puerto Rican restaurant in Spanish Harlem at night cuz its too dangerous (my cousin is one of the few in our community with a master's degree and lives in Tribeca and refused to take us to 'El Barrio' at night due to the reasons stated), it depresses me to know how little we have progressed in the past fifty years.

I get the discrimination, language barriers (back when the first wave occured), and lack of attention from the gov't when Puerto Ricans arrived in NYC and surrounding cities/areas contributed to their plight. But like I said, African Americans have made strides if you look at the numbers over the years. Dominicans, who despite being poorer than Puerto Ricans for the moment, seem to be having a siginificant percentage of their young people going to college (I think it's 20% of second-generation Domincans who attend college compared to like 10% of Puerto Ricans), so their status is likely to improve in the future. But why do so many Puerto Ricans seem just stuck in this cycle of poverty?

I would like any serious response to this, please.
Well, that is easy to explain, in the 50 and 60's the people leaving P.R. where poor people and many uneducated, and many didnt speak english(and from that comes the word ****, "I cant **** english"). So it was hard for puertorricans, they were poor, and uneducated, bad combination. Nobody wanted to give them jobs, they didnt understand them.

Now, Cubans is another story. Cubans left Cuba because of Castro, and the first people that left were rich, educated people mixed with middle class. The rich people in NYC and Miami started business, and hired their fellow cubans, english wasnt a problem.
Same story in P.R. a lot of Cuban in P.R. are rich people(but most of them were already rich or educated.)
My cousin started a Radio Business(SBS) and started hiring Cubans.
My grandfather(mother side) was a rich person that lost almost everything when Fidel took power, but he left and started his own business with the money he had left.
Rich people from P.R. didnt leave, their was no need to leave.
Cuban left because of no choice.

 
Old 12-09-2008, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post

I attended Boston University - which has a quite large "Hispanic" student population and met lots of Puerto Ricans there. Every single one of them that I met was from an educated family that was middle class or above. There were very few "Nuyoricans" there and in fact, I didn't even know what a "Nuyorican" was until I heard some of my Puerto Rican friends from the island talking about how lots of Nuyoricans love to flaunt that they are "boricua" yet can hardly string together a sentence in Spanish and have taken on more of an African-American, urban street culture than a Latin one.
So true...
Their is much difference between a Puerto Rican and a nuyoricans.
And Puerto Rican hate nuyoricans because they give us a bad name(Just in case, they dont hate all nuyoricans, just the sterio type).
And Boricua was a made up name from NY, puertorriquenos didnt use that word. Just in case, Boricua comes from the Taino language(indians). Puerto Rico used to be Borinken or Borinquen.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Reno, NV
824 posts, read 2,782,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
Excellent point Miles. Would give you rep points, but I can't give you anymore.
Me, too.

I wonder if the points about Puerto Ricans also apply to American Indians and Native Hawaiians, people that have been, how do I put it, been conquered. There are some sort of sociological and psychological barriers to achieving upward mobility in a culture that has been imposed upon them.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
I believe that one and only one of several reasons for the existence of such a large underclass of people of Puerto Rican origin in the USA as opposed to that of other immigrant groups is tied in to the process of immigrating into the USA.

Somehow, it seems to me, that when say, East Europeans, Dominicans, Mexicans, Jamaicans, etc., need to go through a process of securing a green card, that in itself makes a powerful difference in their psychology when they arrive to work and live in America.

For the Puerto Rican, their homeland is a territory of the USA - not a state, not independent, somewhat in between. All that is needed to obtain citizenship is that plane ticket, destination America. This easier process of becoming an American as vs. the lengthier, more uncertain and dubious, less guaranteed one for other immigrant groups, perhaps cultivates a momentum for the latter, unlike the fomer, that carries forward upon arrival. The immigrant who has to attain a green card takes nothing for granted; he/she accepts that he or she may need to start at the absolute bottom and usually would be willing to do very low paying and low esteem jobs in order to attain the American Dream - restaurant deliveryperson, janitor, bus boy, etc., that we see many Mexicans and East Europeans doing.

The culture of being not fully American back on the island but at the same time being distinguishable from other immigrants like Dominicans, I believe, creates a different mindset, and many migrate here and remain at the lower rungs of the economic ladder.

This analysis is of a general nature pertaining only to those in the underclass communities and one must absolutely recognize that the island has provided many lawyers, doctors, and successful immigrants to the USA - and these have fully assimilated into the mainstream in cities and towns across America and live in integrated communities - not in areas that one can label a "Puerto Rican" neighborhood.
Is a good and valid point, I am one of those
 
Old 12-09-2008, 11:24 AM
 
3,225 posts, read 8,541,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
Is a good and valid point, I am one of those
Thanks, Doc. Good to have everyone on board- we all are contributing good points to the discussion started by the OP.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 11:26 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,473,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctc7 View Post
Me, too.

I wonder if the points about Puerto Ricans also apply to American Indians and Native Hawaiians, people that have been, how do I put it, been conquered. There are some sort of sociological and psychological barriers to achieving upward mobility in a culture that has been imposed upon them.
Well yes,,
In P.R. we have 3 political parties.
P.I.P.
Popular
P.N.P.
P.I.P.: the Independence partie, Usually hate P.R. and some are very socialist.(4-5% of th population)
Popular party: Want P.R. to stay the same, as a colony
P.N.P.: Wants P.R. to be a State, fully integrated with US culture.

PNP and Popular are the main parties,
right now is a Popular Gov. and in Jan it will change to a PNP Gov.
Every election is a fight for the 2 parties.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 12:29 PM
 
7,511 posts, read 11,297,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I didn't even know what a "Nuyorican" was until I heard some of my Puerto Rican friends from the island talking about how lots of Nuyoricans love to flaunt that they are "boricua" yet can hardly string together a sentence in Spanish and have taken on more of an African-American, urban street culture than a Latin one...
As far as the last part. Does anyone expect for those Nuyoricans to have a pure Puerto Rican/Latin culture while growing up in the U.S? That urban African-American street culture that was referred to may be more about how many Nuyoricans have been a part of Hip Hop culture. That's a result of Hip Hop starting in the South Bronx. The South Bronx has a large Puerto Rican and Black-American population with both groups contributing to the creation of Hip Hop.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 12:39 PM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,473,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
As far as the last part. Does anyone expect for those Nuyoricans to have a pure Puerto Rican/Latin culture while growing up in the U.S? That urban African-American street culture that was referred to may be more about how many Nuyoricans have been a part of Hip Hop culture. That's a result of Hip Hop starting in the South Bronx. The South Bronx has a large Puerto Rican and Black-American population with both groups contributing to the creation of Hip Hop.
Hmmm, I dont know..
A few nuyoricans that I know here in NYC have a very strong puerto rican culture, while others(most) only have the flag as a culture.
But again, it depends on the family, a lof of italian still have their culture in NYC, and some dont.
But Nuyoricans here have created their own culture, they have mixed Puerto Rican culture with black-American.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 01:09 PM
 
Location: N Y
68 posts, read 183,144 times
Reputation: 145
To put it as simply as possible, Puerto Ricans, have the "benefit" of US citizenship upon stateside arrival. This qualifies them for Welfare and public housing.
It has been taken advantage of to the point that we are in the third generation of the same cycle of poverty. Dominicans, Cubans or any other immigrant does not have the "benefit" of instant citizenship. They tend to work more as entrepeneurs, band together and help each other go forward. I have seen this with my own eyes since I, myself am Puerto Rican, born here. My father was also born here and his mother arrived in 1929. Regardless of how early she arrived, their family went into public housing in the 50's and there she stayed until she died. His family did not do so well as far as being educated and moving forward.
My mothers family arrived in the early 50's and also went into public housing. Her family was able to work a bit harder, band together and buy a series of houses. My generation has not had to deal with the projects. My mother is college educated, as are my brother and I. When I was in college, the number of Puerto Ricans enrolled was dwarfed by the number of Dominicans and Central Americans.
It makes me sad to see the cycle of poverty continue. But I can't think about the "group mentality". I can only set my own personal goals for myself and my own family.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
396 posts, read 1,004,797 times
Reputation: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
As far as the last part. Does anyone expect for those Nuyoricans to have a pure Puerto Rican/Latin culture while growing up in the U.S? That urban African-American street culture that was referred to may be more about how many Nuyoricans have been a part of Hip Hop culture. That's a result of Hip Hop starting in the South Bronx. The South Bronx has a large Puerto Rican and Black-American population with both groups contributing to the creation of Hip Hop.
I think the point is that some are claiming this big Puerto Rican heritage (I have met NYC-born and 2nd/3rd generations who won't refer to themselves as Americans), waving the flags, talking the talk but can't walk the walk (i.e., can't sepak Spanish, speak Spanglish, can't dance salsa, know nothing about their history, and have never been to Puerto Rico).
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