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Old 12-09-2008, 03:53 PM
 
479 posts, read 1,437,142 times
Reputation: 283

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Here is my take.

We actually need to look at their history to know why as a group, Puerto Ricans haven't been that successful in the mainland USA.

Back in the 40's and 60's, the island of Puerto Rico, was really poor and many out of jobs. So once there were so many flights available from the island to the mainland, the migration was in full speed. Back in the island promises of factories jobs in USA cities, also help in attracting them to the mainland. That is why you have a lot of Puerto Rican presence in Northeast cities and in cities as far as Chicago. They did come to work, not to be in some government welfare. They could have done so in the Island. But unfortunately, the factories pay wasn't that very good but for them it was way better to have a job, than been jobless back at home. Also the living conditions at that time, were bad of course in cities, but not as bad as they were in Puerto Rico (back then). So they accepted it. But then, the factories started to either moved away from cities or just close down. With some of the last ones disappearing by the 70's. Not only at that time, that cities were getting economically stress out, but many people (whites) moved away to the suburbs and took many more jobs and businesses with them. All of this did not look good for the Puerto Ricans in the cities. Or for the Blacks, who by then, were both at the bottom of the social economic ladder.

Plenty of discrimination. Many Puerto Ricans were discriminated because the did not speak English and because they were not white enough. Discrimination was out more in the open, unlike what you see today. For example, I read that there were some awful signs on some Italian businesses in East Harlem, were it will read, "no dogs and Puerto Ricans allowed'. Of course there was no need to add blacks to the signs, since no black will be welcome anyway, but the Italians wanted to send the clear message that Puerto Ricans were more in common with dogs or animals than they were like them. I guess European or white. They did not have so much of an issue with the Irish or other European immigrant. Also it was normal for the cops to ignore their problems. Most cops at that time were of Irish descent. So why care. In many neighborhoods they were not really welcome. In either Italian, Irish or any white neighborhoods. Although Jewish neighborhoods tended to be more welcoming. But a lot of them left the city along with other whites as well. So the Puerto Ricans were push aside close to or where the African Americans were already living. In distress neighborhoods. So they settle in, among the African Americans. I am sure tensions did form within the groups. But in the end they learn to accept each other in some ways. A lot of the Puerto Ricans did go back to the Island than endure living in such conditions, but many did stay even though they were economically stress out. And yes, by then, many decided to look for government help, such as welfare and public housing. NYC as well as many other cities became economically worse. Crime and drugs where everywhere and affected many of these neighborhoods.

The Puerto Ricans who were born in the mainland had more issues and things in common with African Americans than they did with Puerto Ricans in the island or with American Whites. They grew up with African Americans and went to the same schools with them. For many they were still a minority even in these neighborhoods, so they did had to go along with what African Americans already were used to. Like what they like in music or in the movies, clothes etc. By the 70's these neighborhoods were really economically bad. But something interesting did happen and especially in NYC. Puerto Ricans did get involved in creating a new type of music that was to become Hip Hop. While many others, that still embrace their Latin music went on to create the craze Salsa. It seems like an excitement time for many, to be recognize around the world for their music creations. Even while their neighborhoods were still deteriorating and full of crime, drug problems and arson.

Now the next wave of Latin immigrants or from around the world fare well. Most started to come in the 80's and still today. By the 70's and 80's moving to White areas was more possible. A lot of Whites did not care about staying in cities anymore. Many were trying to get out as fast as they could. Too much crime and drugs, too many new immigrants, etc. By then, the city also had discourage those nasty signs and unwelcoming tactics and even pass some job discrimination laws, etc. Also the newer immigrants did not wanted to go to these distress neighborhoods anyway, were the African Americans and Puerto Ricans lived, so they chose to go to the White neighborhoods. Queens was top choice. That is why Queens is so diverse. Also many of these immigrants tend to be educated, or had some money. In many countries in order to come to the USA, you must have proved that you are well off and only come to the USA as a guest or tourist. But many over stay their visas.

So many Puerto Ricans individually did get out of these poor situations, but as a group it was sort of too late.

 
Old 12-10-2008, 01:52 AM
 
43 posts, read 258,190 times
Reputation: 24
my parent's both came from puerto rico before their twentieth birthday with no college educations, my father has worked at the same company for more than twenty years, worked his way up from minimum wage to now clearing close to six figures, my mother runs her own business..if that's not success i dont know what is...sadly tho, as i've observed, they may be a rare exception to the rule
 
Old 12-10-2008, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Bronx
1 posts, read 2,815 times
Reputation: 10
I agree with the point Miles made. As a Puerto Rican from the island that moved to NYC 8 years ago, I've come to the same conclusion when trying to explain the differences I've observed between the PR community and other immigrant commnunities in the city.

I would also add that there is a colonial relationship between Puerto Rico and the US that is still unresolved and in my opinion has negatively affected our collective psychology. I believe this has probably also been a factor in the relative lack of success of Puerto Ricans in the US compared to other immigrant groups.

Thanks to the original poster for bringing up the topic.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 07:14 AM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,059,421 times
Reputation: 593
OMG, I am so heated right now reading this post. I know plenty of middle class and a few well off Puerto Ricans. I also know many that do well but come from the ghetto and still even live there and might look very hood and/or tough but are nice hardworking family people. However, on the flip side its often very difficult to escape extreme poverty and some people never do. But there are many many Puerto Ricans that do so and I personally know a great number of them.

Your comparison of PR to African-Americans, that you made at least twice, is quite inaccurate when you are talking about NYC or at least when referring to people coming from the NYC hood and making it out (and not our many educated black transplants). Totally offbase and often the opposite of what I see when you go into the "deep" hood (i.e projects). Though this is not to bash any other group, its just ridiculous that you would characterize the situation this way.

You will find Puerto Ricans with deep family ties and connections that you dont see with any other group that I know (except maybe Dominicanos).

Also, your statement that Spanish Harlem is so dangerous even your PR cousin who lives in Tribeca wouldn't go there ALSO would not go to the black hood or the Dominican hood because clearly he is AFRAID of the hood and poverty. East Harlem is NO more dangerous than any hood and is probably a lot safer than many areas with similar economic conditions. Now if you're comparing any part of Harlem to Times Square (the new one, not the one in the 80s) or TRIBECA, then OF COURSE you will feel safer in those wealthy areas. But when comparing apples to apples, the PR area you chose as your example (which is now very mixed with lots of other ethnicities ANYWAY) is if anything safer than areas filled with other ethnic groups.

You seem very ignorant to Nuyoricans and other ethnicities in the City so you really need to reserve comment until you know what you're talking about.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 07:29 AM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,059,421 times
Reputation: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
So true...
Their is much difference between a Puerto Rican and a nuyoricans.
And Puerto Rican hate nuyoricans because they give us a bad name(Just in case, they dont hate all nuyoricans, just the sterio type).
And Boricua was a made up name from NY, puertorriquenos didnt use that word. Just in case, Boricua comes from the Taino language(indians). Puerto Rico used to be Borinken or Borinquen.
Haha this view of PR being so nice and crime free is crazy. The view I saw from PR the times I've been there and stayed with average every day Puerto Ricans (many of whom live in self-built tin shacks that are quite fixed up and cosy inside but dont have warm water). From what I saw (and I visited family of two college educated Nuyoricans), it is quite poor there in that respect though people still have a nicely decorated and clean house and big warm meal to offer you. They told me of the crime and honestly, it sounds totally WILD. Way crazier than what goes on here. When I saw the people they just reminded me so much of the people in NYC. Maybe it was the specific places I visited, but they were far away from each other..
 
Old 12-10-2008, 08:55 AM
 
3,225 posts, read 8,529,665 times
Reputation: 903
[quote=quelinda;6499042]OMG, I am so heated right now reading this post. QUOTE]

Just curious to know which post you are referring to as there was no quoted reference. Thanks.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
4,433 posts, read 7,623,095 times
Reputation: 2039
Anyone want to discuss the spraw of Puerto Ricans from New York to the Eastern Pennsylvania, with the benefits, and also problems, they face? I did a thesis on it, and was very interesting. Some questions......

1. Will the cost housing in NYC cause this migration to continue?

2. Will the recession bring this migration to a slowdown?

3. Are the marketing schemes deliberate? Were those schemes intended for a particular group?

4. What will be the impact of the increasing population of the Eastern Pennsylvania region in 20 years?

A few Latinos, namely Puerto Ricans, have moved to EPA, and that is the reason for the questions.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:27 AM
 
2,742 posts, read 7,465,080 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
Haha this view of PR being so nice and crime free is crazy. The view I saw from PR the times I've been there and stayed with average every day Puerto Ricans (many of whom live in self-built tin shacks that are quite fixed up and cosy inside but dont have warm water). From what I saw (and I visited family of two college educated Nuyoricans), it is quite poor there in that respect though people still have a nicely decorated and clean house and big warm meal to offer you. They told me of the crime and honestly, it sounds totally WILD. Way crazier than what goes on here. When I saw the people they just reminded me so much of the people in NYC. Maybe it was the specific places I visited, but they were far away from each other..
Well to give you an example...
Since I have lived almost all of my life in P.R., many of the tin shacks are illegal houses in public(government property), many of are dominicans that are illegal and cant be in caserios(PJ).
Yes, everybody knows that P.R. is mainly poor(of course not everybody is poor).
And maybe it is, because it sound you were out side the metro area(where 50% of the people live).
Crime in P.R. is raising(especially now with this crisis).
Now crime in P.R. usually are drug related(drug lords use P.R. as a entry point to the main land, just like Miami). But if you go to Plaza las Americas you will see the difference.
I am not saying that Puerto Rican are angels, but they are different,
For example, I remember when the Puerto Rican parade(a few years ago i think was 99) it was a disaster, even rape.
When we have a parade here usually some fights between drunks, but no rapes.
Let me give you an example...
This video was made this year, they are protesting a "gasoducto" a gaspipe.
this are people from el campo, meaning from non metro area.
They are working poor people, and tell me if you see a difference? the way they act, the way they dress, everything...
And from Isabela, on of the poorest towns in P.R.

YouTube - Concentración Todo Puerto Rico Contra el Gasoducto

Oh, and please dont think this is my personal view, is pretty collective down in P.R.

Last edited by cjma79; 12-10-2008 at 09:42 AM..
 
Old 12-10-2008, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,123,067 times
Reputation: 3627
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
OMG, I am so heated right now reading this post. I know plenty of middle class and a few well off Puerto Ricans. I also know many that do well but come from the ghetto and still even live there and might look very hood and/or tough but are nice hardworking family people. However, on the flip side its often very difficult to escape extreme poverty and some people never do. But there are many many Puerto Ricans that do so and I personally know a great number of them.

Your comparison of PR to African-Americans, that you made at least twice, is quite inaccurate when you are talking about NYC or at least when referring to people coming from the NYC hood and making it out (and not our many educated black transplants). Totally offbase and often the opposite of what I see when you go into the "deep" hood (i.e projects). Though this is not to bash any other group, its just ridiculous that you would characterize the situation this way.

You will find Puerto Ricans with deep family ties and connections that you dont see with any other group that I know (except maybe Dominicanos).

Also, your statement that Spanish Harlem is so dangerous even your PR cousin who lives in Tribeca wouldn't go there ALSO would not go to the black hood or the Dominican hood because clearly he is AFRAID of the hood and poverty. East Harlem is NO more dangerous than any hood and is probably a lot safer than many areas with similar economic conditions. Now if you're comparing any part of Harlem to Times Square (the new one, not the one in the 80s) or TRIBECA, then OF COURSE you will feel safer in those wealthy areas. But when comparing apples to apples, the PR area you chose as your example (which is now very mixed with lots of other ethnicities ANYWAY) is if anything safer than areas filled with other ethnic groups.

You seem very ignorant to Nuyoricans and other ethnicities in the City so you really need to reserve comment until you know what you're talking about.
quelinda I don't think the intention was to offend the Puerto-Rican or Nuyorican communities. Many of the people posting are Puerto-Rican themselves or have family that is Puerto-Rican (myself). I know quite a few middle-class Puerto-Ricans and my family in Puerto-Rico is comfortably middle-class as well. There are many Nuyoricans that have been in a cycle of poverty and I think posters are posting the valid reasons behind this.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:14 AM
 
3,225 posts, read 8,529,665 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
quelinda I don't think the intention was to offend the Puerto-Rican or Nuyorican communities. Many of the people posting are Puerto-Rican themselves or have family that is Puerto-Rican (myself). I know quite a few middle-class Puerto-Ricans and my family in Puerto-Rico is comfortably middle-class as well. There are many Nuyoricans that have been in a cycle of poverty and I think posters are posting the valid reasons behind this.
Thanks so much for pointing that out, NooYowkur. I was beginning to wonder where we went astray in what I consider to be a fantastic, thought-provoking thread where most posters sre trying to do precisely as you point out.
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