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Old 12-10-2008, 10:20 AM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,062,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
Thanks so much for pointing that out, NooYowkur. I was beginning to wonder where we went astray in what I consider to be a fantastic, thought-provoking thread where most posters sre trying to do precisely as you point out.
I agree that the replies have been interesting and explanatory, but I just got angry at this characterization of Puerto Ricans in NY being less educated and doing more poorly financially and socially than every other ethnic group, including, as examples given by the OP, African-Americans and Dominicans. Well sorry, its totally off base and not true. I think the discussion is not why are Nuyoricans so worse off than other ethnic groups, since that's NOT TRUE, but why does poverty in NY persist, etc etc. So my problem was with the characterizations in the OP, not the responses.

 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjma79 View Post
Well to give you an example...
Since I have lived almost all of my life in P.R., many of the tin shacks are illegal houses in public(government property), many of are dominicans that are illegal and cant be in caserios(PJ).

LOL, I can assure you I was visiting actual Puerto Ricans, NOT Dominican immigrants, of which I realize there are many in PR. I was stayed over in 2 very clean nicely kept "shacks" that were built on family land, not government land, over 40 years ago by Puerto Ricans. They told me how the family members built these houses themselves. I know historically there's a lot of squatting going on in PR, but I dont see your point as it relates to this thread.

Yes, everybody knows that P.R. is mainly poor(of course not everybody is poor).

And maybe it is, because it sound you were out side the metro area(where 50% of the people live). Yes, I was though I dont see your point (Vega Alta and Rio Grande or something like that in the mountains)
Crime in P.R. is raising(especially now with this crisis).
Now crime in P.R. usually are drug related(drug lords use P.R. as a entry point to the main land, just like Miami). But if you go to Plaza las Americas you will see the difference.

Of course the crime has to do with drugs. That's what it usually has to do with. But I heard the craziest harshest crime stories about how things are there behind the scenes and away from the tourist beaches. This appeared to be nothing new.

I am not saying that Puerto Rican are angels, but they are different,
For example, I remember when the Puerto Rican parade(a few years ago i think was 99) it was a disaster, even rape.
When we have a parade here usually some fights between drunks, but no rapes.
Let me give you an example...
This video was made this year, they are protesting a "gasoducto" a gaspipe.
this are people from el campo, meaning from non metro area.
They are working poor people, and tell me if you see a difference? the way they act, the way they dress, everything...
And from Isabela, on of the poorest towns in P.R.

YouTube - Concentración Todo Puerto Rico Contra el Gasoducto

Oh, and please dont think this is my personal view, is pretty collective down in P.R.
Well ya know what 99.99% of Puerto Ricans also don't believe in rape. Sorry to brake it to you, but its not just PRs from La Isla that dont believe in rape. Rape is a crime and one criminal's actions (including those horrible men who forcibly grabbed at girls etc) shouldnt be blamed on an entire ethnic group from a particular city.

Last edited by quelinda; 12-10-2008 at 10:38 AM..
 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,145,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
Well ya know what 99.99% of Puerto Ricans also don't believe in rape. Sorry to brake it to you, but its not just PRs from La Isla that dont believe in rape. Rape is a crime and one criminal's actions (including those horrible men who forcibly grabbed at girls etc) shouldnt be blamed on an entire ethnic group from a particular city.
Quelinda, I'm having trouble understanding what you mean when you say they don't believe in rape. Also you seem offended Puerto-Ricans are being compared to Dominicans and Blacks. I don't really understand why. It's natural to compare as Puerto-Ricans often live in the same neighborhoods as these communities.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
Quelinda, I'm having trouble understanding what you mean when you say they don't believe in rape. Also you seem offended Puerto-Ricans are being compared to Dominicans and Blacks. I don't really understand why. It's natural to compare as Puerto-Ricans often live in the same neighborhoods as these communities.
The poster I was responding to said that he is from La Isla and that there, as opposed to NY parades, they dont rape the people LOL. So I was merely pointing out that we New Yorkers also do not believe rape is OK and that a criminal's actions should not be equated to an entire group.

I like all people and have spent a lot of time around black people and also Dominicans with great experiences, I just didn't like how Puerto Ricans were characterized as the most uneducated and least upwardly mobile as COMPARED to blacks and Dominicans. I just believe, based on first hand experience, it is NOT a correct characterization. I never said Puerto Ricans are better than anyone else, but do you agree with the OP that Puerto Ricans in NYC are doing worse than the other two ethnic groups he compared PRs to?
 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,145,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
The poster I was responding to said that he is from La Isla and that there, as opposed to NY parades, they dont rape the people LOL. So I was merely pointing out that we New Yorkers also do not believe rape is OK and that a criminal's actions should not be equated to an entire group.

I like all people and have spent a lot of time around black people and also Dominicans with great experiences, I just didn't like how Puerto Ricans were characterized as the most uneducated and least upwardly mobile as COMPARED to blacks and Dominicans. I just believe, based on first hand experience, it is NOT a correct characterization. I never said Puerto Ricans are better than anyone else, but do you agree with the OP that Puerto Ricans in NYC are doing worse than the other two ethnic groups he compared PRs to?
No I don't agree. All three of those communities have their own unique problems. I wouldn't say one group is doing necessarily better than the other.

I will say this the low college numbers for Puerto-Ricans is discouraging, and is a big issue. They are definitely doing worse there.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 10:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
No I don't agree. All three of those communities have their own unique problems. I wouldn't say one group is doing necessarily better than the other.

I will say this the low college numbers for Puerto-Ricans is discouraging, and is a big issue. They are definitely doing worse there.
Do you have some stats for that? Is it really accurate to say that out of all three ethnic groups PRs are the least educated when we are talking apples to apples. Meaning we are talking about native New Yorkers, not educated transplants who move here after the fact from somewhere else. Are you saying more poor NY African-Americans go to college than poor Puerto Ricans? We already know the middle class in both ethnic groups both tend to go to college just by virtue of being in the middle class.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,145,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
Do you have some stats for that? Is it really accurate to say that out of all three ethnic groups PRs are the least educated when we are talking apples to apples. Meaning we are talking about native New Yorkers, not educated transplants who move here after the fact from somewhere else. Are you saying more poor NY African-Americans go to college than poor Puerto Ricans? We already know the middle class in both ethnic groups both tend to go to college just by virtue of being in the middle class.
Go to the educational attainment section. The information you seek is there.

Puerto Ricans in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also for comparison sake,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Americans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_american

It's wikipedia but you can always check the numbered sources...
 
Old 12-10-2008, 11:14 AM
 
1,867 posts, read 4,062,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
Go to the educational attainment section. The information you seek is there.

Puerto Ricans in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also for comparison sake,

Dominican American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

African American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's wikipedia but you can always check the numbered sources...
From your link:

"College Graduation Rates. While in Puerto Rico, according to the 2000 Census, 24.4 percent of those 25 years and older had a 4-year college degree, for Stateside Puerto Ricans the figure was only 9.9 percent. By 2003, for Stateside Puerto Ricans it increased to 13.1 percent, below the rate for Whites (26.1 percent), Blacks (14.4 percent) and Asians (43.3 percent). Among Latinos, only Mexicans (6.2 percent) fared worse than Stateside Puerto Ricans in college attainment, with the other groups having higher rates: Dominicans (10.9 percent), Cubans (19.4 percent), Central and South Americans (16.0 percent) and other Latinos (16.1 percent)."

So In 2000, almost 9 years ago stateside Puerto Ricans were for the entire US (not just NYC as this thread concerns) 1 percentage point behind African Americans (the example cited by the OP) and were actually 3 percentage points above Dominicans at 10.9% (being the other example the OP cited). Now you will note that your source talks about Puerto Ricans and African-Americans (and Dominicans for that matter) in the US as a WHOLE, not just comparing Puerto Ricans and African Americans in NEW YORK CITY. So is 1 percentage point from 9 years ago really indicative? There are loads of middle class blacks and Puerto Ricans around the country, but I thought the OP was compariing those groups' plights in NYC, and there I do not agree. Neither is "better" than the other and therefore the OP shouldn't characterize the other gruops as being better than Puerto Ricans. He started that comparison, NOT me.
 
Old 12-10-2008, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,145,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
From your link:

"College Graduation Rates. While in Puerto Rico, according to the 2000 Census, 24.4 percent of those 25 years and older had a 4-year college degree, for Stateside Puerto Ricans the figure was only 9.9 percent. By 2003, for Stateside Puerto Ricans it increased to 13.1 percent, below the rate for Whites (26.1 percent), Blacks (14.4 percent) and Asians (43.3 percent). Among Latinos, only Mexicans (6.2 percent) fared worse than Stateside Puerto Ricans in college attainment, with the other groups having higher rates: Dominicans (10.9 percent), Cubans (19.4 percent), Central and South Americans (16.0 percent) and other Latinos (16.1 percent)."

So In 2000, almost 9 years ago stateside Puerto Ricans were for the entire US (not just NYC as this thread concerns) 1 percentage point behind African Americans (the example cited by the OP) and were actually 3 percentage points above Dominicans at 10.9% (being the other example the OP cited). Now you will note that your source talks about Puerto Ricans and African-Americans (and Dominicans for that matter) in the US as a WHOLE, not just comparing Puerto Ricans and African Americans in NEW YORK CITY. So is 1 percentage point from 9 years ago really indicative? There are loads of middle class blacks and Puerto Ricans around the country, but I thought the OP was compariing those groups' plights in NYC, and there I do not agree. Neither is "better" than the other and therefore the OP shouldn't characterize the other gruops as being better than Puerto Ricans. He started that comparison, NOT me.
Yes you are right, the thread is about NYC communities, so those numbers are somewhat null. However, I have come across specific NYC numbers in the past, and they are not good. I would have to dig for a link...
 
Old 12-10-2008, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Middle Tennessee
166 posts, read 609,653 times
Reputation: 188
To quelinda, I would just like to remind u myself that I am Puerto Rican originally from NJ (where a lot of the the inner-city Puerto Ricans face the same situations they do in NYC). I am not trying to diminish the various aspects of success in our community. There not doubt many PR's that are middle class and who are college educated. My own mother made it out of the projects and run-down rowhouses in Trenton during the 70s and 80s and now works a full-time job with great benefits and a steady income. My father came to NJ in 1980 from PR and has made enough money to send me and my sister both to college. I also have A LOT of cousins who either are in college or have graduated from it.

However, as a whole, our community is definitely facing some serious issues. Unlike the Italins, Jews, Irish, Polish or even a lot of Afro-Carribean or African immigrants communities, who have "assimilated into the American mainstream." Puerto Ricans have been in a lot of inner-city communities like these ethnic groups in the Northeast and Midwest for about half a century, and we still have much higher rates of out-of-wedlock births, low high graduation rates, poor college attendance, and I did read somewhere (though I do not have the link unfortunately) that Puerto Ricans have the highest incarceration rates among all Hispanics.

I do not mean to put down my own people. I would never be ashamed of where I come from and the beauty of the Puerto Rican culture, but I just find it disheartening that like a previous respondent said, that Puerto rican neighborhoods in NYC are not like the Italian, Irish or Chinese neighborhoods with largely working class to middle class populations and low crime rates. I am just trying to get responses as to why this is.
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