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Selling is not an option, contributing to this gentrification movement by renting to the demographics that spearhead gentrification is. I'm in it for the long haul.
Okay, well you know nothing is going to change overnight, and it might take another 60 years before your area improves. I suggest you continue to be a vocal part of your community as much as possible and do what you can to find others in your community that agree. Maybe spend time talking to those in neighborhoods that have seen changes from crime and drug infested areas and see what landlords and community leaders did in their hoods.
Well in my opinion, ghetto ass people in the Bronx need to go. Black , white, spanish, yellow, pink, red.. etc..it doesn't matter. If you are ghetto, then you are ghetto and regardless what race you are, you need to get dealt with. Because they are messing it up for the nice, hard working people who just want a nice, peaceful place to live without any rowdiness.
This "hustler" or "gangsta" mentality is what's infesting these neighborhoods and prevents any positive growth in the community.
Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they have to act like animals or uncivilized people and do dirty in the streets. Public education is FREE! You can go to public school your whole life and become the next president of the U.S. Thats the beauty of America.
However, I'm a firm believer in TOUGH LOVE. I have no pitty for ignorant dumbasses who choose to do dirty in the streets and contribute to the downfall of a community and then use the excuse that they are poor or grew up poor to justify their ignorant behavior.
Sad to say that the majority of these ghetto people are indeed poor. However, the city steps in and pays about 70% of their rent to help them out. Plus food stamps and other programs. Do you think the financial assistance the city gives them changes their lifestyle and all of a sudden they are productive individuals in sociality? Hell NO!
The selling of drugs continues, the hanging out continues, the downfall of a community continues. NO END IN SIGHT....THEREFORE, GENTRIFICATION IS A MUST TO SPARK CHANGE IN A COMMUNITY.
The way I look at it is this....GET YOUR Moderator cut: stuff TOGETHER OR GET THE Moderator cut: heck OUT..ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Sounds harsh but you have to put your foot down to let them know you mean business.
You have equated working poor with ghetto. How? Why? The mere fact that the moderator had to censor your posts speaks volumes.
I don't feel this is the place to go into diatribe over the gentrification of The Bronx...because after all, if people are as upstanding, well bred and well educated and charming as you and your family, then they would never have to, or have had to EVER live in The Bronx, for Heaven's sake, right?
How can some you not see if you keep shuffling the poor ghetto people around from neighborhood to neighborhood the cycle will never end.
If we displace all the ghetto ppl from the BX where exactly are they gonna go, and where ever they whether it's another borough, out of the city, or out of the state that place is just going to become a new ghetto or even more ghetto than it was before.
You can't just move ppl and feel like well their not in my borough or city anymore so who cares because the problem persists and the cycle may repeat itself in a few generations with poor ghetto ppl moving back instead killing the problem off by rehabbing the ghetto and creating real programs to help change their state of mind.
How can some you not see if you keep shuffling the poor ghetto people around from neighborhood to neighborhood the cycle will never end. .
How exactly do you "make the cycle end"?
What programs can you enact to convince people to pursue the free education the government provides them? To not take drugs? To not have children before you are ready? To not treat you neighborhood like a toilet with drugs and alcohol? To not spray paint and deface everything that is not tied down?
I know there is a difference between the working poor and ghetto trash. The above is the behavior of ghetto trash. What program helps them to not be trashy wastes of space? I ask you honestly. There are a lot of people that cry out for justice for the ghetto folks....but I don't think ghetto folks want to be helped. And not the poor people that happen to live in the ghetto...the actualy ghetto folk.
If someone was poor, unemployed and starving, and stole a loaf of bread to feed their family, They have my sympathy and I would understand their plight.
When someone is poor, unemployed and starving, so they steal a purse from an old lady, use it to buy drugs, and then impregnate the 5th girl this year.......then they have no sympathy from me...they are trash. There is no "fixing" them, or helping them. They want to be animals. And I don't think the city, the government, or property owners, should have to pay them, subsidize them, or in anyway lose money to them, so that they can continue being animals.
No one that was born from 1970 or later is unaware of the dangers of drugs, or teen pregnancy, or the importance of education. We have all seen after school specials. There is no excuse to be an addict, or have 12 babies, or a high school drop out. If you are one of those things, there are already DOZENS of programs designed to help you. I just don't get what more people can do to help the "plight" of the ghetto dweller. I don't think they even have a "plight".. They are living the life they choose, and able to do it because that life is subsidized.
I would argue with you that "trying to end the cycle" is why the cycle is never ending. People are encouraged to be ghetto trash because we subsidize that life. Interfering only makes matters worse.
What programs can you enact to convince people to pursue the free education the government provides them? To not take drugs? To not have children before you are ready? To not treat you neighborhood like a toilet with drugs and alcohol? To not spray paint and deface everything that is not tied down?
I know there is a difference between the working poor and ghetto trash. The above is the behavior of ghetto trash. What program helps them to not be trashy wastes of space? I ask you honestly. There are a lot of people that cry out for justice for the ghetto folks....but I don't think ghetto folks want to be helped. And not the poor people that happen to live in the ghetto...the actualy ghetto folk.
If someone was poor, unemployed and starving, and stole a loaf of bread to feed their family, They have my sympathy and I would understand their plight.
When someone is poor, unemployed and starving, so they steal a purse from an old lady, use it to buy drugs, and then impregnate the 5th girl this year.......then they have no sympathy from me...they are trash. There is no "fixing" them, or helping them. They want to be animals. And I don't think the city, the government, or property owners, should have to pay them, subsidize them, or in anyway lose money to them, so that they can continue being animals.
No one that was born from 1970 or later is unaware of the dangers of drugs, or teen pregnancy, or the importance of education. We have all seen after school specials. There is no excuse to be an addict, or have 12 babies, or a high school drop out. If you are one of those things, there are already DOZENS of programs designed to help you. I just don't get what more people can do to help the "plight" of the ghetto dweller. I don't think they even have a "plight".. They are living the life they choose, and able to do it because that life is subsidized.
I would argue with you that "trying to end the cycle" is why the cycle is never ending. People are encouraged to be ghetto trash because we subsidize that life. Interfering only makes matters worse.
The thing about it is we've never put any real effort as a society to tackle these issues. But before I get into that most pf these ppl living in the hood or ghetto are not criminals they may be lower class and behave poorly sometimes due to their terrible upbringings but the majority of ppl you guys are talking about displacing are innocent hard working people that do all the dirty work along with the new immigrants that keeps society going.
But back to your post about tackling these issues, of course I don't have any real answers I'm not a sociologist or anthropologists. But I think we need complete education reforms especially in these ghetto communities, and we need an education that explains to them why their in these situations whether it's the effects of slavery and institutionalized racism or socio economic prejudice's based on just their class. Like really let them understand exactly why because these ppl don't have any real clue why exactly their poor and their family has been poor for generations they need to understand the problem to help find a real solution. We need a better education system where the sole goal is to just get a diploma and get out but a system thats main goal is to truly fight ignorance because ignorance is the greatest problem for struggling ppl all over the world.
We need to some how through extensive education on this subject beat into their heads one of the biggest driving forces behind this ghetto lifestyle continuing is these early pregnancies and these kids being raised by dysfunctional single teenaged mothers. We need to promote safe sex not only for personal reasons but for the betterment of society and their local communities.
We need some programs that encourage entrepreneurship in the ghetto so these little boys don't think their only options are sports, rap, and drug dealing and the little girls don't think the only way they can make it is by sleeping with a rich guy or shaking her ass in videos. These kids don't see and believe they can own their own business and use that entrepreneurial spirit they use for drug dealing into a legit business. We also need established business to open up more locations in the ghetto through incentives or something so a lot of these teens and young adults can get jobs so they won't have to resort to selling drugs or stealing.
Yea we have programs but their all stuff that try to help after the fact we don't have anything that prevents.
If we could put as much effort into just these few things I listed off the top of my head withing like 5 minutes as we do on the war on drugs I bet it would do wonders in the hood. Now I don't think it will solve all problems and this would take a few generations and there would still be a lot more added programs and things of that nature to really start helping these ppl but at least it's a start. As of right now we don't do anything to help these ppl out as a society or gov't and complain about them attacking out when most of would be the same way if we were in those conditions. It's not accident and it's not some random occurrence why these ppl are like this like Psychology teacher always said there's a reason for every single thing we do as humans.
Last edited by joshd9124; 03-27-2012 at 11:47 PM..
What programs can you enact to convince people to pursue the free educationu the government provides them? To not take drugs? To not have children before you are ready? To not treat you neighborhood like a toilet with drugs and alcohol? To not spray paint and deface everything that is not tied down?
I know there is a difference between the working poor and ghetto trash. The above is the behavior of ghetto trash. What program helps them to not be trashy wastes of space? I ask you honestly. There are a lot of people that cry out for justice for the ghetto folks....but I don't think ghetto folks want to be helped. And not the poor people that happen to live in the ghetto...the actualy ghetto folk.
If someone was poor, unemployed and starving, and stole a loaf of bread to feed their family, They have my sympathy and I would understand their plight.
When someone is poor, unemployed and starving, so they steal a purse from an old lady, use it to buy drugs, and then impregnate the 5th girl this year.......then they have no sympathy from me...they are trash. There is no "fixing" them, or helping them. They want to be animals. And I don't think the city, the government, or property owners, should have to pay them, subsidize them, or in anyway lose money to them, so that they can continue being animals.
No one that was born from 1970 or later is unaware of the dangers of drugs, or teen pregnancy, or the importance of education. We have all seen after school specials. There is no excuse to be an addict, or have 12 babies, or a high school drop out. If you are one of those things, there are already DOZENS of programs designed to help you. I just don't get what more people can do to help the "plight" of the ghetto dweller. I don't think they even have a "plight".. They are living the life they choose, and able to do it because that life is subsidized.
I would argue with you that "trying to end the cycle" is why the cycle is never ending. People are encouraged to be ghetto trash because we subsidize that life. Interfering only makes matters worse.
It's the ignorance of ghetto people, their lifestyle/culture and a combination of uneducated/uninformed demographics that contributes to their problems. Below is a good video that sums it up. Note that it's not the republicans or the democrats who run the world but the super wealthy that lerk in the shadows that you never hear from. Look up Rothschild Family and you'll see what I'm taking about.
The thing about it is we've never put any real effort as a society to tackle these issues. .
I just don't agree with the above statement sir. I understand what you are saying about ignorance and how these people have no hope and therefore no ambitions. I really really understand what you are saying...
But I don't agree. I think we as a society have put a TREMENDOUS amount of time, effort, and money into combatting the problems of non-education and poverty.
There is one thing that is true amongst humans...there will ALWAYS be poor people. That is not something that goes away. Since the beggining of societies, regardless of whether they are socialist, capitalist, monarchies, whatever..there have been poor people.
There are sections of the Hammarabi code that mention the impoverished.
So I don't think ANY amount of effort on the part of society or government or the church or anyone is going to end poverty as we know it. The best you can do is improve the living conditions of the poor, and in America...our poor have it better than any other poor population on earth or in the history of humanity.
In America, even the poorest of the poor has access to food, clean water, shelter and medicine. Sure there are working poor in America who will never make enough to break the cycle of poverty for themselves, and that is sad. But The working poor in America have it 4000 billion times better than the working poor of other countries that basically live a life of indentured servitude who have NO opportunity to ever get ahead.
Even the poorest of the poor in the ghetto, the working poor, has the opportunity to send their children to a public school, and that child will get an education (if they choose to take it) that will allow them to be 10 steps ahead of their parents. They may never make it out of the ghetto...but they will have a better job than their parents. And if they don't start having babies at 12, then they can start saving money and getting raises, and moving up in their jobs. They have the OPPORTUNITY to change their station in life.
And many of them just don't take it. They act like thugs, breed like rabbits, and say "more, more more! Give me more..I won't work, I won't educate myself. I will abuse alcohol and drugs...AND I WANT MORE! The government needs to pay me to be a thug!"
And that's what really gets me...Most of the programs we have enacted to help the poor only continue the cycle of poverty. Their is no incentive to leave the ghetto and improve yourself, and every incentive not too. And I don't buy the fact that these people in the ghetto are not responsible for their actions. I hear this a lot on this board. "they are raised in ignorance, they don't know any better, it's a way of life for them, they don't see it as not being normal" and frankly that is BS.
Every child in America grew up with after school specials. Every child in America gets enough education to know how babies are made, and that drugs are bad for you, and that you shouldn't be spray painting and defacing property. Every ghetto child has at least one grandmother on the block that slaps them upside the head and says "don't be bringing home no babies. Don't be smoking on rock."
The THUGS in the ghetto, on a daily basis, CRAP on every opportunity handed to them. And why shouldn't they? It's so much easier to just live off the government.
And what is the solution to this problem? Well according to some on this board it's to give ghetto lay abouts even MORE welfare. It's to prevent property owners and entrepeneuers like HilltopJay from buying and improving property, and improving HIS situation in life. Or making money so that he can send HIS kids to school or put food in their mouth.
I just don't buy it........
If you REALLY wanted to help people in the ghetto break the cycle of poverty, you need to give them incentive. Incentives are the only thing that human beings, rich and poor, respond too.
If I could wave a magic wand, then I would do the following.
1) Put all girls beggining at the age of 12 on mandatory birth control. There are forms of birth control you can take that last 5 years and have no negative side effects. Children already have to get immunizations before they can go to public schools. Let them get their birth control shot at 12 and again at 17 so that no girl will accidentally get pregnant before she is 22. (And I am not sexist, I would be perfectly fine with giving this to boys if such a form of birth control existed and was proven safe.) I don't want ghetto people to never have children, they can have as many as they want, but let's help break the cycle of babies having babies.
2) If we have a vaccine or preventative medicine that we can administer to people, give it to them. Let's help them not ruin their lives by contracting some STD that is avoidable.
3) Overhaul the education system so that it actually teaches something VALUABLE. I think History and PE are great. I also wished that it was mandatory for everyone to take Home Ec, so they could actually learn how to cook food cheaply and healthy, and so they knew how to upkeep a house. I wish there were high school classes on how to balance a check book, and how to read a credit card application.
4) School shouldn't end in the 12th grade where you get a diploma that is worthless for getting a job. Education should continue to trade school where you take two years to learn how to DO something. Auto mechanics. Legal Aid. Dental assistant. You are not going to become rich getting jobs like these, but you will be employable and make enough to break the cycle of poverty, and give your CHILDREN a better life.
5) Mandatory drug tests for anyone on Welfare. Period. I have heard the arguments against this, but I don't care. Drugs ruin peoples lives. They ruin families. They destroy society. If you test positive for crack, you don't get a check tha tmonth. Incentives! Give people reasons to actually join and stick with AA, or a drug cessation program.
6) Make Welfare limited. I totally support welfare. I think a social safety net is great. I think the difference between America now and America 150 years ago is tha twe don't allow the least of us, the poor, the infirm, the elderly to just die in the streets. That's great.
What's not great is the current welfare system is set up in such a way that once you get on, it's nearly impossible to get off. Welfare should be limited. You get say, 10 years in your lifetime to be on welfare, beggining when you turn 18. If you have a couple of bad years and you need government assitance, fine. But just know that you can only go to that bucket so many times. Give people a REASON to get off welfare.
I don't belive what you are saying that the people in the ghetto are victims of their own ignorance. They aren't ignorant at all. They are smart as hell. Smart enough to know gaming the system is better than working.
But whatever, rant over. I don't have a horse in this race. I just don't agree that HilltopJay is the greedy capitalist because he wants to use real estate to improve his financial situaiton. He has a right to buy a property and do what he can to improve the value of said property. He has a right to be pissed that ghetto people spray paint the front of his house, or sale crack on his corner. I don't see him as the bad guy you are all painting him to be.
What I see is a whole lot of excuses. Being poor sucks, I have been there. But to say "these people can't help themselves, they need sympathy because their situation is hopeless" is just utter BS to me. It's HARD to break the cycle of poverty, it's not impossible. We just go about it the wrong way. And well meaning people help oppress the poor by enabling them.
I just don't agree with the above statement sir. I understand what you are saying about ignorance and how these people have no hope and therefore no ambitions. I really really understand what you are saying...
But I don't agree. I think we as a society have put a TREMENDOUS amount of time, effort, and money into combatting the problems of non-education and poverty.
There is one thing that is true amongst humans...there will ALWAYS be poor people. That is not something that goes away. Since the beggining of societies, regardless of whether they are socialist, capitalist, monarchies, whatever..there have been poor people.
There are sections of the Hammarabi code that mention the impoverished.
So I don't think ANY amount of effort on the part of society or government or the church or anyone is going to end poverty as we know it. The best you can do is improve the living conditions of the poor, and in America...our poor have it better than any other poor population on earth or in the history of humanity.
In America, even the poorest of the poor has access to food, clean water, shelter and medicine. Sure there are working poor in America who will never make enough to break the cycle of poverty for themselves, and that is sad. But The working poor in America have it 4000 billion times better than the working poor of other countries that basically live a life of indentured servitude who have NO opportunity to ever get ahead.
Even the poorest of the poor in the ghetto, the working poor, has the opportunity to send their children to a public school, and that child will get an education (if they choose to take it) that will allow them to be 10 steps ahead of their parents. They may never make it out of the ghetto...but they will have a better job than their parents. And if they don't start having babies at 12, then they can start saving money and getting raises, and moving up in their jobs. They have the OPPORTUNITY to change their station in life.
And many of them just don't take it. They act like thugs, breed like rabbits, and say "more, more more! Give me more..I won't work, I won't educate myself. I will abuse alcohol and drugs...AND I WANT MORE! The government needs to pay me to be a thug!"
And that's what really gets me...Most of the programs we have enacted to help the poor only continue the cycle of poverty. Their is no incentive to leave the ghetto and improve yourself, and every incentive not too. And I don't buy the fact that these people in the ghetto are not responsible for their actions. I hear this a lot on this board. "they are raised in ignorance, they don't know any better, it's a way of life for them, they don't see it as not being normal" and frankly that is BS.
Every child in America grew up with after school specials. Every child in America gets enough education to know how babies are made, and that drugs are bad for you, and that you shouldn't be spray painting and defacing property. Every ghetto child has at least one grandmother on the block that slaps them upside the head and says "don't be bringing home no babies. Don't be smoking on rock."
The THUGS in the ghetto, on a daily basis, CRAP on every opportunity handed to them. And why shouldn't they? It's so much easier to just live off the government.
And what is the solution to this problem? Well according to some on this board it's to give ghetto lay abouts even MORE welfare. It's to prevent property owners and entrepeneuers like HilltopJay from buying and improving property, and improving HIS situation in life. Or making money so that he can send HIS kids to school or put food in their mouth.
I just don't buy it........
If you REALLY wanted to help people in the ghetto break the cycle of poverty, you need to give them incentive. Incentives are the only thing that human beings, rich and poor, respond too.
If I could wave a magic wand, then I would do the following.
1) Put all girls beggining at the age of 12 on mandatory birth control. There are forms of birth control you can take that last 5 years and have no negative side effects. Children already have to get immunizations before they can go to public schools. Let them get their birth control shot at 12 and again at 17 so that no girl will accidentally get pregnant before she is 22. (And I am not sexist, I would be perfectly fine with giving this to boys if such a form of birth control existed and was proven safe.) I don't want ghetto people to never have children, they can have as many as they want, but let's help break the cycle of babies having babies.
2) If we have a vaccine or preventative medicine that we can administer to people, give it to them. Let's help them not ruin their lives by contracting some STD that is avoidable.
3) Overhaul the education system so that it actually teaches something VALUABLE. I think History and PE are great. I also wished that it was mandatory for everyone to take Home Ec, so they could actually learn how to cook food cheaply and healthy, and so they knew how to upkeep a house. I wish there were high school classes on how to balance a check book, and how to read a credit card application.
4) School shouldn't end in the 12th grade where you get a diploma that is worthless for getting a job. Education should continue to trade school where you take two years to learn how to DO something. Auto mechanics. Legal Aid. Dental assistant. You are not going to become rich getting jobs like these, but you will be employable and make enough to break the cycle of poverty, and give your CHILDREN a better life.
5) Mandatory drug tests for anyone on Welfare. Period. I have heard the arguments against this, but I don't care. Drugs ruin peoples lives. They ruin families. They destroy society. If you test positive for crack, you don't get a check tha tmonth. Incentives! Give people reasons to actually join and stick with AA, or a drug cessation program.
6) Make Welfare limited. I totally support welfare. I think a social safety net is great. I think the difference between America now and America 150 years ago is tha twe don't allow the least of us, the poor, the infirm, the elderly to just die in the streets. That's great.
What's not great is the current welfare system is set up in such a way that once you get on, it's nearly impossible to get off. Welfare should be limited. You get say, 10 years in your lifetime to be on welfare, beggining when you turn 18. If you have a couple of bad years and you need government assitance, fine. But just know that you can only go to that bucket so many times. Give people a REASON to get off welfare.
I don't belive what you are saying that the people in the ghetto are victims of their own ignorance. They aren't ignorant at all. They are smart as hell. Smart enough to know gaming the system is better than working.
But whatever, rant over. I don't have a horse in this race. I just don't agree that HilltopJay is the greedy capitalist because he wants to use real estate to improve his financial situaiton. He has a right to buy a property and do what he can to improve the value of said property. He has a right to be pissed that ghetto people spray paint the front of his house, or sale crack on his corner. I don't see him as the bad guy you are all painting him to be.
What I see is a whole lot of excuses. Being poor sucks, I have been there. But to say "these people can't help themselves, they need sympathy because their situation is hopeless" is just utter BS to me. It's HARD to break the cycle of poverty, it's not impossible. We just go about it the wrong way. And well meaning people help oppress the poor by enabling them.
I don't know if you misunderstood me but I'm not advocating our current programs to help the poor because I also think it really just enables them, and if all were doing is enabling them then were not doing enough or the right thing as a society to solve the problem that is my point.
Yea everybody see's the after school specials and gets some basic sex ed but that's not enough there needs to be legit programs with incentives or penalties like you said.
I really don't think we've done a lot to prevent it like I said most of the things we have are band-aids but don't prevent anything because eventually a lot of poor ppl exploit the system. Not all do but some do and some feel it's perfectly fine since the system has exploited them for centuries but thats another discussion.
And yes they are victims of their ignorance it's that same ignorance that makes them spend hundreds of dollars on Jordans or jewlery instead of saving or trying to invest, it's the ignorance that makes them think being a drug dealer or a rapper is a more realistic and practical career choice than a legit business person or doctor. It's the ignorance that keeps them from thinking there is no way out of their situation. Like I said yea a lot of them do milk the system but even with that Gov't help their still poor as hell they'd still rather be in a better situation.
But overall I agree with the points you made in your post. I'd also like to some kind of family planning or family help centers with professionals that can show these mothers how to go about properly raising their kids, give em one on one mentoring, and some kind of therapy where they can work through their anger and understand why their so dysfunctional.
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