Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
New York City and Hawaii are quite similar, not in terms of culture, because they are both groups of islands with a high cost of living. People all over the world fantasize about living there (for very different reasons) and this desirability drives up the price. They both have a lot of the very rich and the very poor; those in the middle feel increasingly squeezed.
It occurs to me that, living in such places, one experiences a "class-lifestyle-shift." Whatever class-lifestyle one could expect to have in most of the country, given a certain income, you have to shift down one class-lifestyle in New York City. Thus people earning a middle-class salary, a school teacher for example, often live a comparatively working-class lifestyle in New York. This goes all the way up the income ladder. My boss makes nearly $2M. In most any other part of the country he would be considered wealthy. However he has four kids, all of whom are in private school, and is paying for a 5-bedroom co-op in central Manhattan, etc. He is certainly comfortable and upper-middle class, but far from rich. To continue the analogy from earlier posts: he can afford to eat at Per Se on occasion, be he can't afford to live in the Time Warner Building (at least not if he wants 5 bedrooms).
Going back to cost-benefit analysis, to be happy here there has to be something else, let's call it the "NY-factor," that compensates for the class-lifestyle-shift. Your NY-factor is your passion for subways, cultural amenities, restaurants, career possibilities, energy, diversity of people, etc. If your NY-factor is high, it will balance out the downward pull of the class-lifestyle-shift. However, if your personal NY-factor is low to moderate, downward pull of the class-lifestyle-shift will ultimately leave you unsatisfied.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but to be fair can we assume that people don't move here to live in bad neighborhoods or to ride the subway? Just an example, let's say I'm a newbie and I'm asking you specifically to tell me where I could live on about 2800 a month, but would like to go to a show once every other month and to dinner once a week and to the clubs every weekend...would you say you can do all of that and afford the Astoria neighborhood (since we have already established that this person could not live in the "City"). I love that you love NYC and have such positive thoughts about it. I am not trying to be a downer just a realist. I personally don't think that you can live well here on that salary, in a nice area and experience all that is great about NY.
TPK - You are absolutely right about the "New York factor". It is critical and it makes up for a lot. I am one of those people who,even after more than 30 years, still loves every subway ride and can spend hours and hours just wandering around the city. If it's nice out I'll gladly walk 40 or 50 blocks and enjoy every minute of it !
Chelsea - I don't think it would be much fun at all to try to get by on 2,800/mo. That's only $33,000 a year!. I thought we were talking about whether you could be comfortable ( as a single or couple without children) on $100,000. Big difference. My only point was that if you are single and don't insist on living in a high rent district, 60 or 70,000 can go a long way.
The OP said he/she would be making about 50k a month 2800 is after taxes without the other deductions. Do you see my point now? I'm not here to dash anyone's dreams but let's be realistic about things. I make a much closer to the 100k, live in a modest apartment, but I do not live a comfortable life, where if I missed a pay check things would be okay. That is all I'm saying.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but to be fair can we assume that people don't move here to live in bad neighborhoods or to ride the subway? Just an example, let's say I'm a newbie and I'm asking you specifically to tell me where I could live on about 2800 a month, but would like to go to a show once every other month and to dinner once a week and to the clubs every weekend...would you say you can do all of that and afford the Astoria neighborhood (since we have already established that this person could not live in the "City"). I love that you love NYC and have such positive thoughts about it. I am not trying to be a downer just a realist. I personally don't think that you can live well here on that salary, in a nice area and experience all that is great about NY.
Thanks, I appreciate the honesty. I'd expect to make $50K starting out. I'm hoping to get some decent pay increases as I get more experience. I'm not sure how accurate Monster's salary calculator is, but according to it, the average salary of an accountant (in NYC) with 5 years experience is $70,000 and $80,000 with 7 years of experience.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but to be fair can we assume that people don't move here to live in bad neighborhoods or to ride the subway? Just an example, let's say I'm a newbie and I'm asking you specifically to tell me where I could live on about 2800 a month, but would like to go to a show once every other month and to dinner once a week and to the clubs every weekend...would you say you can do all of that and afford the Astoria neighborhood (since we have already established that this person could not live in the "City"). I love that you love NYC and have such positive thoughts about it. I am not trying to be a downer just a realist. I personally don't think that you can live well here on that salary, in a nice area and experience all that is great about NY.
Of course it's possible; I live on less and often see three shows a week and eat out whenever I want. I rarely pay retail for the theater tickets and I'm a connoisseur of the $10 to $15 meal, but fortunately, if you know where to look, you can always get a bargain somewhere.
However, the class-lifestyle-shift still applies. In most other cities, Minneapolis, for example, you can live alone in a central location on that income. In New York you will either have a roommate or a long subway ride. To me, being a middle-class 20- or 30-something means you are able to live alone in a good area. That's practically impossible in New York on that budget. The class-lifestyle-shift will pull you down to a working-class, or at least college-student, lifestyle.
The other probable sacrifice on that budget is vacations. If someone asks me where I went on my last vacation I say, "I live in New York, that's my vacation." The way I see it, the money that I spend on tickets and food is a perpetual mini-vacation. I would rather go out every week rather than scrimp and save to go to Europe once a year.
If I made $2,800 after taxes and paid $1,200 for rent, then I'd have $1,600 left over for everything else. I can't imagine what would be so hard about living on $1,600 after taxes and rent. My biggest expense after rent (right now) is probably groceries, and I only spend about $300 - $400 a month on that. I'm including going out to eat in that number. And I don't feel like I'm depriving myself.
I don't think that you should expect more than an average increase which is right around 5%, but you may be able to make more than the 50K you mentioned. All I'm saying is don't think you are going to live a "Sex in the City" life on even 80K, it just isn't going to happen. If your dream is to come to NYC, by all means you should do so (jobs are very scarce here too though). Just would like you to have a realistic picture in your head.
where do you live Mjohnson? You may be able to do it. I never said you couldn't, but again, don't forget about cable, electric, phone, laundry that will not be in you apartment (perhaps in a building), but still relatively close also, you haven't deducted the medical stuff. You can live, I just think it will be modestly.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
