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Old 02-09-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,242 posts, read 24,023,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan View Post
35 grand a year in Mannhattan? lol lol lol You are killing me! 35 grand a year is NO lifestlye in Pittsburgh!
I was a lot younger and it was 20 years ago but I was perfectly happy.I had roommates and paid 300 a mo in rent.I was very happy and didn't feel as though i was missing out on anything.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:05 PM
 
1,437 posts, read 3,066,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
I was a lot younger and it was 20 years ago but I was perfectly happy.I had roommates and paid 300 a mo in rent.I was very happy and didn't feel as though i was missing out on anything.
So, what you are saying is, that your were a "kid" at that time, and that it was "back in the 80's". Really, how can that be relavent now? Adjusted for inflation, or considereing how much realeastate shot up since then, it can't be.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,242 posts, read 24,023,373 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan View Post
So, what you are saying is, that your were a "kid" at that time, and that it was "back in the 80's". Really, how can that be relavent now? Adjusted for inflation, or considereing how much realeastate shot up since then, it can't be.
I never meant to imply that it was translatable into today's dollars except to illustrate that you don't need to have a lot of money to enjoy life in NY-or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you are consumed with living a certain unrealistic lifestyle.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Boston MA, by way of NYC
2,763 posts, read 6,752,746 times
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Well apparently we are all wrong because the numbers say so - perhaps crisp should listen to the news where there was a clip that states 126k in NYC is the equivalent of 50k in Atlanta - but I'm sure those numbers don't matter - we keep talking about the census and statistics of all across America - so compare the differerences with those 2 salaries then - oh and to answer your question I am educated and worked the same way you do - obviously our priorities and thoughts of what middle class are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum - anyway tAke it easy - just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you have to get upset - you seem to be snarling mad.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:18 PM
 
1,437 posts, read 3,066,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
I never meant to imply that it was translatable into today's dollars except to illustrate that you don't need to have a lot of money to enjoy life in NY-or anywhere else for that matter. Unless you are consumed with living a certain unrealistic lifestyle.
Anything's possible. 'Mother Terasa' lived a very long and happy life with no money what-so-ever. But, if at 20 years later, you think you'd still be happy if you were living under those 'same' conditions? I think not, but maybe you still are and just not letting on.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,242 posts, read 24,023,373 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan View Post
Anything's possible. 'Mother Terasa' lived a very long and happy life with no money what-so-ever. But, if at 20 years later, you think you'd still be happy if you were living under those 'same' conditions? I think not, but maybe you still are and just not letting on.
But I never said I would be happy now living under the same circumstances.Where did you spin that out of? I said I was happy then. Different.

What is the sense in purposely misconstruing what someone has said just to argue with it?
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:15 PM
 
1,437 posts, read 3,066,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
But I never said I would be happy now living under the same circumstances.Where did you spin that out of? I said I was happy then. Different.

What is the sense in purposely misconstruing what someone has said just to argue with it?
I thought that's what you were maybe trying to say. Almost everybody's fondest memories, are those of their late teens or early 20's. I look back when I was in my late teens, making peanuts, and those were some of the best and happy-go-lucky times of my life. Lifes kinda funny that way, when your finally able to afford certain things or go certain places with a certain amount of style, it doesn't seem as fun as when you had to do it on a shoe-string budget. Somehow, the 5 star resort hotel wasn't as fun, as the dive motel that you stayed at 10 years before.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Denver
690 posts, read 2,105,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
I'd say that you would be able to make it in NYC. And, you started out with your other thread asking about affordable places in Brooklyn, so you're doing the right thing. And, I'd not say that you were lower class no matter how much money from which you came, since you are obviously doing something right in that you're able to make what you want to do affordable.

To my mind, you have demonstrated a good value system and have a good head on your shoulders, and are seeking to understand the culture of NYC and its varied expenses that can be vastly different before making a decision. So many people move to the city and want Manhattan at all costs, then designer clothing, and dining out all the time, but the reality is that they cannot afford it, even on twice your projected starting income.

So they either go into staggering amounts of debt or rely on parents to do it all for them, and bemoan how poor they are all the time when they could very well take matters in hand and still live in NYC on their own. To me, that's lower class, since they, and anyone who will listen, are held hostage by the illusion of a lifestyle. These are people who live in $6k/mo apartments, wear $500 sunglasses, but cannot come up with $100 for lunch. Whereas someone who works hard for what they have and accomplishes things in smaller steps on their own is someone whom I would regard with a great deal of esteem, no matter their income level, because they set about to make things happen, and do so at their own dignified pace.

You never know, you could end up loving NYC as many who come to the city do. For me, I have often wondered what it would be like to relocate to NYC, but since I am a native and have grown up with its sights and sounds, it's difficult to envision the enthusiasm. And, in some respects, I do envy that of contributing transplants to the city, since what we take for granted is met with a little bit of awe, at least the first 100 times.
Thanks for the props! You guys have been really friendly and helpful. I hope I meet people like you when/if I move there.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Denver
690 posts, read 2,105,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan View Post
You heard wrong. A statement like that is actually kinda funny. First of all, "the poorest of the poor" here in america, are homeless. Now, do you think that the "middleclass" in "3rd world countries" are homeless?
I don't know...I've heard that they have some pretty nice homeless shelters in San Francisco. And they have all kinds of programs to help them get back on their feet. So maybe.
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:25 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 11,651,088 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
City schools have safety and discipline issues that affect the quality of education. Don't kid yourself. It's not a want to have safe, decent neighborhood schools in NYC, it's a need. Health insurance is a need, too, or should we just put all the children on public assistance?

In terms of income, two teachers (not administrators or principals, but teachers) might make $140-$150k as a family and that's a middle class occupation, not upper middle class. It's the same with NYPD and FDNY where two together make $100-$150k. Those are real world middle class numbers in NYC, not affluent, not upper middle class, but solidly middle class occupations and incomes. In no way, shape, or form would such income levels be described as wealthy in the metro area.

As opposed to the largely arbitrary census data, I much prefer the Claritas PRIZM system that actually applies real world scenarios to neighborhood descriptors and people who reside in them. It's very accurate, and clearly delineates the differences, and is not solely based upon income.

1) "Safe, decent neighborhood schools"? You can get those in the three affordable areas that I listed which house plenty of middle class people: most of NJ, Queens, and Staten Island. How on earth am I kidding myself of anything?

2) Regarding health insurance, in this country it is should be regarded as a necessity.

3) Regarding your "classic middle class professions" - sure: cops, firemen, and teachers are professions which many middle class people practice. However, two teachers with 10-15 years experience each making $80,000 a piece will have a $160,000 household income, placing them in the top 5% of American households. It doesn't matter to me that society has traditionally regarded this as a "middle class" profession; this is drawing on how people "feel" and not what the statistics say. Sure, one single teacher living in NYC on $80,000 will likely be regarded as middle class, but two married teachers with the same income will be WELL into the upper middle class. Though teachers are not blue collar, cops, firemen, and other workmen are, and this might be why some people have such trouble accepting that a fireman or policeman could be the head of an upper middle class household. The "blue collar"/"white collar" distinction is not to be confused with class.

4) Regarding PRIZM, I am not its biggest fan. Claritas provides marketing data based on traits of the population living in a certain area, and although it is interesting, it says very little about class. In fact, it seems tailored to meet the needs of businesses that want to hear "stereotypes" of an area and its residents, and has income data that is not more accurate than that of the US Census. Also, check out the delineations that PRIZM makes on household income. $89,000 as being "upper income" and $65,000 as being "upper middle income"? These are substantially lower than it seems like any of us are saying, and certainly doesn't help your case that socieconomic class is relative to specific cities.
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