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ok good. talk about the areas you know then. it certainly doesnt include the bronx. just yesterday you were asking where morris park is LOL and stated that university heights is a nice area LOL. your comments on the bronx carry no weight, as far as im concerned.
"There is plenty hopelessness in the South Bronx. Rent burdens do not make things any easier. It just adds to the list of problems. Many people will not make it out of the South Bronx. Some will die. Be it murder or natural death thanks to asthma, heart diesese, ect. Some will have criminal records and be stuck in a life of poverty, due discrimination against those with prior convictions. Many more will not finish HS and not even finish high school. Trapped in a cycle of dead end jobs and/or low income. Many people will not make it out of the poverty cycle.
Whats even worse is todays street mentality. You also have so many poor families today. So many living in shelters. Many more then there have ever been. Over half the youth in the South Bronx live in poverty."
You think you invented poverty or something? A lot of what you're talking about is partly a choice. Most immigrants who came here, past and present, came here dirt poor. In my mom's day there was no such thing as welfare, section 8, or public housing projects. Millions prospered and climbed out of the tenements (two to a bed in my mom's household) due to hard, hard work and sacrifice.
My grandmother insisted all her children finish high school. My mom had to start working at age 14 after my grandfather died so she and her four siblings could eat. She went to high school at night to finish her degree. Their standard of living was horrendous. Guess how they all turned out?
Poverty due to "discrimination" over priors? Gee, that's unfair, isn't it?
"Stuck" in the poverty cycle and not finishing high school? Gee, wonder why that might be? Do you think the two might be connected--and do you think people have no choice about not finishing high school just because their peers are too busy getting into trouble? There's a state of the art library on Kingsbridge Road now open seven days a week from 9 am to 9 pm, with plenty of guards/security. Hit the books instead of wandering the streets looking for trouble. Want some pocket change? Instead of robbing, earn your money with a part time job, and don't squander what you do have.
Street mentality? So I suppose everyone is a robot who has to conform to that mentality automatically?
How do you break the cycle of poverty? Don't go along with the crowd. If you're gonna refuse to use birth control and have children you can't afford and no spouse to help provide a positive role model (bad choice number one) at least encourage them not to make the same mistakes you did and continue the cycle of poverty by popping out more kids who will in turn be in the same cycle. Tell them to give themselves a fighting chance by not burdening themselves with kids when they are kids themselves,--which will almost guarantee they will always be struggling. Having children is a huge commitment and a very expensive one.
Have some concern and real love for the children you chose to bring into this world. Encourage them to stay out of gangs, work hard at school and work, even strive for college. Don't encourage them to take the easy way out, to succumb to peer pressure from posturing idiots who will go nowhere. Let them know that true courage is taking the road less traveled. Let them know that you have to work hard and struggle for what you want, delay gratification, don't fall for the fake easy status of flashy gold jewelry. Save your money instead of spending it on junk to give you a false sense of ghetto prosperity.
Despite what you think, many of the poor immigrants in these neighborhoods are doing just that. They somehow manage to scratch up the money to send their kids to parochial schools in the community. They don't leave their kids to fend for themselves. Many (the working poor) work hard to better someone other than themselves--namely, the children they brought into this world. (Why do you think many have the wherewithal to eventually move on to someplace better?) Tell them to respect where they live, not to vandalize and deface their own home just because they get cheap or free rent. Teach them to have pride in their heritage and not to disrespect themselves and others by using a term which symbolizes one of the most disgraceful eras in our history--the self same epithet which they would likely kill a white person over if they dared to utter it. And try to set a positive example by practicing what you preach.
Help them to realize that there is indeed a world outside the ghetto they were born into. Hope is a very powerful thing, just as hopelessness is. They needn't live and die in the ghetto. It is not inevitable.
I know you will have "answers" to all my points, but they are easy excuses as far as I'm concerned. And don't think I have no compassion. I said over and over again that I think the poor should have decent food, clothing, shelter. But no one can make you do the hard work to get to a better place in life. That's up to you to do.
Furthermore, you do more to stereotype the minority poor than any white person could hope to do. You disparage your own people and don't seem to believe that any of them have the potential to become decent members of society. You do a disservice to them, and to yourself.
Save it. Life is not easy. The ghetto only makes that struggle harder. You obviously have no comprehension of what it's like to be Black and live in the hood.
Not everyone has the opportunity you speak of. What about the kid, with no father figure, raised by the streets. What do expect from him? What about the good girl who is killed by the stray bullet? What about the oldest son, who dropped out of High School to care for his younger brothers and sisters, since his father was absent and his mother is not capable alone.
You just never experienced it and honestly you will never understand.
As for stereotyping minorities. Oh God you should hear yourself. No one is stereotyping. These are realities. The poverty, the hood mentality. It's a shame but it's the honest truth. And not all "minorities" are from the ghetto. My people are not ghetto people. Many if not most in the hoods are just stuck in these mental prisons.
Life is not fair. It wasn't fair or easy for my parents (as I told you, my mom worked AND finished high school to help support her family. Her father died working himself to death. My mom was 14. Tough break, huh?) Some of her family got killed in Europe. Guess why? Because they were Jewish. Think you invented discrimination or untimely death? Please.
You are copping out, making excuses. This is exactly the kind of attitude that I'm talking about. Others have made it under harrowing circumstances, so spare me the "what do you expect from him?"
As I said above, parents have a responsibility to care for their children. I don't care how difficult it is--they brought these children into this world. It's no joke, Hustla. You could be a role model if you chose.
Ever see some of the business owners in the Bronx? Ever notice they are there day in and day out? In some of the bodegas, you can come first thing in the morning and last thing at night and they're still there--dealing with all the neighborhood bs, putting their life on the line, risking death and robbery. Think they have it easy, Hustla?
I lost both my parents by the time I was fifteen years old. Wanna get out the violins for me? Everyone has problems. And I mean everyone. And I'm no yuppie. I never made a high salary, but I didn't whine about it because if I wanted to make more I could have chosen a field (like finance) that would pay more. But my "quality of life" wasn't about how much money I could make. It was about enjoying what I did.
And Concept, why don't you can it. Just how old are you? You think you know it all, seen it all? Yeah, whatever. So brag on about how big and bad and knowlegeable you are. Come back to this forum in 10 years and tell everyone how you prospered.
I could care less what you think. I'm very happy. Sorry if that offends you. So very, very sorry.
PS--Of course I can't put myself in your shoes. I am very aware of the unique circumstances of African Americans in this country. But let's take, for example, a woman who's been raped. Can you know how that feels (though I know men get raped too--especially in prison). But there comes a time when you have to step up and do what you have to do. THINGS ARE TOUGH ALL OVER. That excuse just doesn't cut it with me. I have plenty of compassion, but you are doing zero to give the next generation any hope at all.
Hustla (and his cohort) complain about the hood mentality, but discuorage anything that would lead to positive change for these neighborhoods. I think his agenda is clear.
Much, much easier to whine on and on. Really, why do you pretend to "care" so much? You can't even bring yourself to address anyone here by name (except Princess Roseba who couldn't afford Manhattan and thinks your home and mine merits dismissal and contempt). When you' can't "win" an arguement, you just ignore the statement or question presented to you and repeat the same old canned rhetoric.
What a sad joke. You don't see these people as human beings--as individuals with unique needs, wants, and goals which may differ from your own. You have disdain for anyone who comes to live here, disdain for your own home and community, disdain for the kids who live in it. You expect nothing from them but crime. Other parents and role models expect more--unless you think they're just incapable of better. So cut and run, and leave your neighborhood to rot or prosper. As you've said many times, you just don't care.
Life is not fair. It wasn't fair or easy for my parents (as I told you, my mom worked AND finished high school to help support her family. Her father died working himself to death. My mom was 14. Tough break, huh?) Some of her family got killed in Europe. Guess why? Because they were Jewish. Think you invented discrimination or untimely death? Please.
You are copping out, making excuses. This is exactly the kind of attitude that I'm talking about. Others have made it under harrowing circumstances, so spare me the "what do you expect from him?"
As I said above, parents have a responsibility to care for their children. I don't care how difficult it is--they brought these children into this world. It's no joke, Hustla. You could be a role model if you chose.
Ever see some of the business owners in the Bronx? Ever notice they are there day in and day out? In some of the bodegas, you can come first thing in the morning and last thing at night and they're still there--dealing with all the neighborhood bs, putting their life on the line, risking death and robbery. Think they have it easy, Hustla?
I lost both my parents by the time I was fifteen years old. Wanna get out the violins for me? Everyone has problems. And I mean everyone. And I'm no yuppie. I never made a high salary, but I didn't whine about it because if I wanted to make more I could have chosen a field (like finance) that would pay more. But my "quality of life" wasn't about how much money I could make. It was about enjoying what I did.
And Concept, why don't you can it. Just how old are you? You think you know it all, seen it all? Yeah, whatever. So brag on about how big and bad and knowlegeable you are. Come back to this forum in 10 years and tell everyone how you prospered.
I could care less what you think. I'm very happy. Sorry if that offends you. So very, very sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black
PS--Of course I can't put myself in your shoes. I am very aware of the unique circumstances of African Americans in this country. But let's take, for example, a woman who's been raped. Can you know how that feels (though I know men get raped too--especially in prison). But there comes a time when you have to step up and do what you have to do. THINGS ARE TOUGH ALL OVER. That excuse just doesn't cut it with me. I have plenty of compassion, but you are doing zero to give the next generation any hope at all.
Did your mother have a positive roll model? Be it positive friends, relatives, anyone. Did you? I guerentee it. I know I did. Saved my life. I was lucky compared to the vast majority of youth in my neighborhood. Who had no one.
I lock up kids who's parents don't give a flying **** they are arrested. In and out of the precinct every week. Defending their kid as though they are angels. Meanwhile, commited a serious crime. I have locked up parents, who's kids come to the precinct (8-9 years old) by themself to ask "yo officiza, wat da deal wit my mom, yo! yo im askin you somethin! ight she gonna be out tommorow. ight". I ask: "so who are you staying with?". "Oh nah offiza i cud handel mahself."
There are so many kids in the Black/Latin ghettos of NYC (and many other cities) with no positive roll models in their life. Their roll models are the streets. Their friends just as clueless as they are (they look up to Camron and 50 cent), and of course the local criminals on the streets of their block. This was not nearly as bad a problem during the great euro migration into the USA. families were already split in the ghetto. Slavery divided families. Roll models were lacking and minorities were hated with a pasion (still are to many people).
These kids pick up the street mentality, and it screws up their life. It's epidemic. You can but you can't really blame them. On one hand, they did the crime. On the other, they didn't know any better.
For these street children, life is very different. It wasn't as easy as, "reading a book". There is no one their to encourage them to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Piper
Hustla (and his cohort) complain about the hood mentality, but discuorage anything that would lead to positive change for these neighborhoods. I think his agenda is clear.
You are stuck on agenda, if anyone has one it's YOU. The agenda to defend the place you live.
I would like you to quote me discouraging anything that would lead to postive changes in low income neighborhoods though. Oh that's right, you can't.
I am happy to hear about low income housing going up in areas like the South Bronx. However at the same time, i'm not going to lie and say that is going to make the community better. Or say the South Bronx is a nice neighborhood. It's more of the same. It just makes a difference in the life of individuals who now have a roof over their heads. I'm at least happy about that.
Hustla, I get your point. I know these kids are victims of horrible homes. I know you see this horror day in and day out. The police in this city are rightly revered as New York's finest.
But some of them do make it out. There are rich privileged kids who give into peer pressure too and ruin their lives, even if (and sometimes because) their parents give them the best of everything, but provide no true guidance or tough love. Kids need some guidance from an adult to succeed, I agree. None of them, rich or pooor, chose to be born, and didn't pick their parents.
My boyfriend grew up poor (military family) and his parents were often abusive and never encouraged him or his siblings to cultivate their abilities and talents. As a result, most of them have lived diminished lives and have low self esteem, despite working hard at mostly dead end jobs. They feel what they have is good enough and all they deserve. My boyfriend turned to drugs (heroin, etc) , and has had plenty of near death experiences and lived in some horrible places in this city. But he never stole, worked hard, and confounded every stereotype one could apply to him.
My cousin (may he rest in peace) spent his whole career in NYC child welfare. My aunt constantly berated him for it. But he cared about these kids enough to try to make some difference. And he wasn't one of those 9-5, clock watching pencil pushing bureaucrats either. He was in the thick of it, seeing the horrible conditions and the way these kids were abused firsthand--at a time when the Bronx, and the city, were at an absolute crime and drug ridden low point. And that field has one of the highest burnout rates because it can seem truly hopeless. But he never quit. Never even considered it.
He went for his masters, and after years in the trenches, he moved up to a position where he was able to cultivate the good in these kids by spending time with them in groups, in recreational settings. He showed them love and compassion. He was a bleeding heart liberal, but not an armchair one. He walked the walk. And I'll bet you anything he made a difference.
Sometimes it's the little things that can change people's lives around. People throughout my life have done simple things or said or recommended something to me that has literally changed my life for the better. Even a little spark of encouragement and hope from a caring role model/mentor/teacher can be enough to make an incredible difference, even if these kids' parents are irredeemable. My boyfriend went to horrible schools with horrible teachers, but he had natural art talent, and his art teachers gave him encouragement and positive feedback. The teachers who work in this area do it because they want to make a difference too, sometimes with zero support from parents.
It breaks my heart to see some of these young ones cowering as their mom yells and curses at them in the street, though thankfully I don't see it often. But when I see the teens in the area, I also see a lot of them who do have caring parents--or at least one, or maybe a grandparent--someone who can give them something to hang onto. And I honestly see a lot of kids and teens who don't seem threatening in any way, no matter how ghetto they dress. Some of them get a little loud with each other, but they're kids.
The subways used to be overrun with thugs, but that just isn't tolerated anymore. That's a huge factor in quality of life--the expectation that people will not behave like animals, will not be permitted to terrorize others, and that this behavior will not be tolerated or excused.
I see many people of color who do love their kids--mothers and fathers both. I see it daily--in the neighborhood, on the subways. I see fathers caring for their kids. I'm not making it up. You must know it's true. The good is out there along with all the bad.
But why oh why do you mock or judge me for living here? Don't you see some of the rampant racism on this board--all the people who are so concerned with the stats, with the number of whites in an area as an indication of whether they can consider living there? I go back into Manhattan and I loathe the vibe there. Rude people with a sense of entitlement, yakking away on their cell phones. People who don't have the decency to say thank you if you hold a door open for them. Not all, of course. But I truly like the people here and the community. I know I am taking a chance with my life, but so are they. Am I a fool for not living my life in fear and/or hatred of my fellow man?
I love the diversity of this city. When I go to other states/suburbs, or see the tourists on the street, they seem alien to me because they look so inbred. Exposure to others is a chance to appreciate their differences as well as a way to realize, not just as an abstraction or a convenient catchphrase, that we have much more in common than not. We are all human, and we all have the capacity for good and evil. And much of it is a choice we make, even if it's a hard one. I don't want to leave the melting pot. I don't want to move to the burbs.
I attended an affordable housing conference at Fordham U this spring. I am aware of the realities you mention--the poorest in the city being pushed out of the other boroughs and into the Bronx. The near impossibllity of making the rent and utilities even here, with costs going up and income stagnating. But residents and community/religious orgs are doing concrete things to try to ensure that the poor here will not be abandoned or pushed out. Buying buildings from the city or landlords, working with banks willing to invest in the area--and believe it or not, there really are some out there. That's why I'm a "dreamer"--because I love it here, always have, and I have hope.
Agreed Pete Piper..in his posts..he says Low-income housing is what is needed in the Bronx to help the community..but he consistently calls all the new affordable housing being built as "the future projects" and "ugly" and "crappy"..so which is it?
As I have stated numerous times, the glass is eternally half-full and nothing is ever positive. He clamors for affordable housing and then calls the affordable housing the future projects, he gives no credit to the greening of the Bronx, the new Parks that are opening in the borough (have you heard of Barretto Park? Opened recently on the Bronx River in Hunts Point...has a beach, sand volleyball courts, bike paths, paddle ball courts, bathrooms, fishing pier, jet-ski launch, and beautiful views and green grass..how about the parks opening on the waterfront by Yankee staidum....coming soon...), the new market rate housing that is being built on the abysmal vacant lots are also "the future projects" and a "rip-off", the new retail center being built by Yankee stadium with restaurants and major retailers, the new Sears Tower on Fordham, and the new Hutchinson Metor-Center Office space...a waste of money and time to Hustla.
None of these are improvements according to him...no matter what is done, it is all pointless....so why bother doing anything...let's just sit and stare at eachother...that's the answer!
And Concept, I agree with you, the poor and working classes are flooding into the Bronx from other boroughs, as are transplants from the city, and new arrivals from inside and outside the country, which means prices are going up, and changes are inevitable. If you believe the Bronx is just more of the same, you are wrong, especially in the South Bronx...change is brewing...
You cannot win with Hustla..his agenda is quite clear.
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