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Old 05-10-2007, 10:28 PM
 
1,529 posts, read 2,777,628 times
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The large gap between rich and poor is not only an issue in NYC

What we are seeing in NYC is more extreme, but you can find this all over the USA. NYC's rents are driving the middle class out. It's like this. If you have the cash, you can live a wonderful life in NYC. Private schools, nice highrise apartment, theater, art galleries. ect. However if you don't, you live in sketchy or completely ****ty areas. You send your kids to unsafe public schools. It's not worth it and the middle class knows that. The lower income people stay becuase NYC offers all kinds of programs to the working poor. NYCHA, section 8, ect. The middle class get the worst of it, kicked out the city.

I also wouldn't call NYC the greatest city in the USA. There are plenty of places you can live much better off for less. Better quality of life. The best thing about NYC is lots of selection and convenience (many stores, many events, ect). However a lot of large cities offer this. It just happends to be very popular becuase of it's size. Largest city in the USA. Of course it will be known world wide.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
2,806 posts, read 16,329,650 times
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In all honesty though NYC is one of the few real cities in the USA. Besides Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, and maybe DC & Baltimore most of the cities in this country have become nothing more than endless stretches of suburban subdivisions with highrises in the middle.

Probably the penultimate example of this in my eyes is a place like Houston, TX, but just about any city in the sunbelt pretty much follows this example.

They aren't really cities in my eyes, and that whole format of neverending suburbs isn't really sustainable these days. This country is going to have major problems as a result of all of this sprawl all over the place if the cost of gas continues to increase along its current trajectory.

You are definitely right about the income disparities though. The only place that I can think of that has a worse disparity between the rich and the poor is probably Los Angeles.

Last edited by mead; 05-11-2007 at 01:51 AM..
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:41 PM
 
Location: PALM BEACH, FL.
607 posts, read 3,550,069 times
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There is definitely a middle class in Manhattan. Midtown, downtown, upper east and west side.

There are many people that make 100-300 thousand a year and clip coupons, they buy fake Gucci bags and budget their money just like Mr. and Mrs. Cleaver.

The reason they are not noticed is because those from outside N.Y.C. think that that income makes them RICH.Or because they live in the "big city" they must make big buck. It takes a lot of money to put a roof over your head in Manhattan. The same person would make 1/3 of their income in Nashville or Denver

The real rich look at them and call them poor working stiffs and the true poor look at them and want what they have and call them rich.

Some of these middle income folks actually think that they ARE rich and have "arrived", but that's a whole nuther thread
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
2,806 posts, read 16,329,650 times
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What are you defining as Middle Class? I would say under $100k a year. Unless someone is living in a rent controlled apartment that they have had for the past 20 years (which would probably result in them never having had kids because it will likely only be 1 br) then it is hard to live in Manhattan on that type of salary.

The rents in Manhattan south of 86th st on the east side and 110th on the West are going for well over $2,000 a month these days. I think the average for a 1br is around $2,500. To afford those types of rents you really need to be making around $100k - $125,000 a year.
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:07 PM
 
Location: PALM BEACH, FL.
607 posts, read 3,550,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mead View Post
What are you defining as Middle Class? I would say under $100k a year. Unless someone is living in a rent controlled apartment that they have had for the past 20 years (which would probably result in them never having had kids because it will likely only be 1 br) then it is hard to live in Manhattan on that type of salary.

The rents in Manhattan south of 86th st on the east side and 110th on the West are going for well over $2,000 a month these days. I think the average for a 1br is around $2,500. To afford those types of rents you really need to be making around $100k - $125,000 a year.

To continue on with this discussion we need to define the lines of incomes and also differentiate between middle "class" and middle "income".

don't you think?
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Old 05-11-2007, 03:29 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 14,777,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mead View Post
In all honesty though NYC is one of the few real cities in the USA. Besides Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, and maybe DC & Baltimore most of the cities in this country have become nothing more than endless stretches of suburban subdivisions with highrises in the middle.

Probably the penultimate example of this in my eyes is a place like Houston, TX, but just about any city in the sunbelt pretty much follows this example.

They aren't really cities in my eyes, and that whole format of neverending suburbs isn't really sustainable these days.
I can think of others that are worse. Houston has several close-in neighborhoods that are walkable and more high-density. Are you going on experience, or a stereotype? And why do people say "Houston, TX"? How many large cities are named Houston?
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
2,806 posts, read 16,329,650 times
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hahaha, that's funny you mentioned it. I actually thought about that before posting it. "Should I add the Texas after Houston or not?"

Yeah, I have a little bit of experience with Houston. I visited a couple of the neighborhoods that I believe you are referring to. I think one is called Montrose? The other one is where all of the gay people live. Most of them are off the side streets where the light rail line runs (in between the business district and the big hospital center, what's it called again?)

Even these neighborhoods are not really dense or walkable by NYC standards. I mean yeah, there are a lot of those apartment developments that have been built right next to each other, but I wouldn't really consider that high density. What would you walk to anyways? There's only that one little street that has all of the trendy restaurants and boutiques on it and beyond that its just your typical strip mall development. In NYC there are probably easily a 100 such neighborhoods that could boast much more interesting stuff to do and see and much more walkability & access to public transport.

Don't take this as an insult or anything. I actually like Houston, especially with the easy access to great BBQ and Northern Mexican food (which I prefer to the Mexican stuff from Puebla that we get around here). The people in Houston are also some of the nicest that I've met in the whole country. Most people down there seemed very friendly and outgoing, which is a welcomed change from the hostile and insular attitude many people have aroudn here.

I just don't think having such low-density development as is done in Houston is a very good idea, nor is it going to be sustainable in the long term, especially if there are spikes in the price of oil over the next couple of years.
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:48 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 14,777,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mead View Post
hahaha, that's funny you mentioned it. I actually thought about that before posting it. "Should I add the Texas after Houston or not?"

Yeah, I have a little bit of experience with Houston. I visited a couple of the neighborhoods that I believe you are referring to. I think one is called Montrose? The other one is where all of the gay people live. Most of them are off the side streets where the light rail line runs (in between the business district and the big hospital center, what's it called again?)

Even these neighborhoods are not really dense or walkable by NYC standards. I mean yeah, there are a lot of those apartment developments that have been built right next to each other, but I wouldn't really consider that high density. What would you walk to anyways? There's only that one little street that has all of the trendy restaurants and boutiques on it and beyond that its just your typical strip mall development. In NYC there are probably easily a 100 such neighborhoods that could boast much more interesting stuff to do and see and much more walkability & access to public transport.

Don't take this as an insult or anything. I actually like Houston, especially with the easy access to great BBQ and Northern Mexican food (which I prefer to the Mexican stuff from Puebla that we get around here). The people in Houston are also some of the nicest that I've met in the whole country. Most people down there seemed very friendly and outgoing, which is a welcomed change from the hostile and insular attitude many people have aroudn here.

I just don't think having such low-density development as is done in Houston is a very good idea, nor is it going to be sustainable in the long term, especially if there are spikes in the price of oil over the next couple of years.
Of course it's not like NYC, but what I really meant is that there are several other sunbelt cities that are much worse (so Houston wouldn't really be the prime example)
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:51 PM
 
1,248 posts, read 4,047,602 times
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People who are making between $40,000 - $80,000 who are single (no child tax credits or earned income tax credits or the BS renters credit WHICH must not pass the city counsel) are having the most trouble. Taxes are confiscatory here as are all the fines & fees (especially the (until just recently) "even on sunday parking meters".

City income tax, state income tax, sales tax, car insurance, rent, & all the other taxes & fees are confiscatory.

Do you know what the AVERAGE rent is in the 5 boros of NYC according to cnnfn.com in 2006?? $2,545 not in Manhattan only but in all the five boros. And who knows how these too cool for school twenty somethings are able to spend thousands in rent for all these new condos & luxury rental buildings going up?? But then again, most of these kids moving to NYC from outside the area are getting terrific packages -- six figure salaries, relocation assistance, plus they come from very wealthy families.. Manhattan is like a playground if you are the sterotypical white male or female between 21-30 and make $200,000 or more. If you make less than $100,000 you feel impoverished. AND BELIVE ME, I don't know any one who clips coupons & buys fake gucci. Maybe in upstate NY but nowhere around here.

I make just under $80,000 and live in a rent stabilized studio apartment in Flushing Queens. My rent is $876 and apartments which are smaller than mine are double the rent not to mention the financial requirements necessary to move in (income at least 45 times monthly rent, 720+FICO score, 6 months bank statements & paystubs). I would need to make over $125,000 to get a better or bigger apartment in the same neighborhood.
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Old 05-27-2007, 09:56 PM
 
1,248 posts, read 4,047,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mead View Post
hahaha, that's funny you mentioned it. I actually thought about that before posting it. "Should I add the Texas after Houston or not?"



Even these neighborhoods are not really dense or walkable by NYC standards. I mean yeah, there are a lot of those apartment developments that have been built right next to each other, but I wouldn't really consider that high density. What would you walk to anyways? There's only that one little street that has all of the trendy restaurants and boutiques on it and beyond that its just your typical strip mall development. In NYC there are probably easily a 100 such neighborhoods that could boast much more interesting stuff to do and see and much more walkability & access to public transport.
100 such neighborhoods in NYC?? Sure, if you are the stereotypical yuppie who wears the $300 denim jeans & $100 Abercrombie shirts. And most of the stores in these neighborhoods are all the same. How is Starbucks or JCREW any different than the ones in Houston TX??

Sure, the trendy restaurants are great if you have a few hundred to spend on dinner for two and are dressed right with the thousand dollar outfits.
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