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So, people are being tricked into paying market rents?
When you say something often enough, especially if it's being backed by print and media then people will begin to believe to be true even though something deep down is telling them it's not.
I was wondering how stringent buildings are on this salary must equal 40x 1 months rent. I am looking to spend $3k per month on rent, which means I would need to make $120k. I don't make this much, but I do make $100k and have $75k in straight savings. I understand that they ask for bank statements as well for additional back-up.
I do want to spend $3k as I work from home and will be in my apartment nearly 24 hrs a day and need something nice and comfortable, not cramped and unworkable. I was even thinking of paying the entire year upfront. Do buildings give additional concessions for this (i.e. reduced rent)? And no, there is no chance I would lose my job and this would be risky to do.
Any advice is appreciated.
Just a thought- I totally understand why someone who works at home would want the extra space, but you will likey deplete 100% of your savings after living in NYC for two years....unless you expect your income to rise dramatically for some reason? (Which is always possible, but just saying).
If you are looking for a safe, 1 br apartment and it really doesn't matter where you live since you work from home, there are other neighborhoods in Manhattan where you would be able to find a small 1br or large studio for $2000-2500 per month. Tack on a $150 membership to the fanciest gym in town and you'll be saving money and living in a MUCH nicer location that actually feels like a neighborhood (vs desolated, slightly sketchy, slightly industrial feel of the West 40's west of 10th).
Check out walk-ups or small elevator buildings (no doorman, you DO NOT need one in most Manhattan neighborhoods at all) on the Upoer East and West Sides, Midtown East (Sutton Place, Tudor City, East 40s along 2nd and 1st Aves), and Murray Hill/ East 20's (east of Grammercy).
I'm angry that self-sufficient adults making good money can't rent an apartment in Manhattan without a co-signer. I don't know of any other place that does that crap. Thank goodness Los Angeles doesn't do it or I wouldn't have a place to live right now. What if you don't have anyone that will co-sign for you? I don't know about you, but most renters don't have a year's worth of $3,000 a mont rent sitting in the bank. If they did they would put it down for a down payment on a house or condo.
I realize that this new 40xs the rent, co-signer thing is now the norm for most of Manhattan. Thank God it's not spreading to other parts of the country.
This is not a dig at you or any other posters that consider this justified and "normal". It's just that I remember how things were and I'm not talking about crime and negative things either.
You're completely missing the point! We should ALL wish the entire country followed such stringent rental and mortgage guidelines as NYC. I can guarentee if ALL homebuyers were required to put down a minimum of 20% down on a home (and have sufficient cash reserves leftover post-purchase), home values would never have fallen 20-70% across the US since 2006-2007. We would not have had the run-up, but I think our friends in Cali, Detroit, and all over the US would choose to miss the run-up in order to avoid the collapse.
Also, 40x is a pretty lax rent guideline, except in NYC where most people do not have the additonal expense of a car. It means to rent a $500 studio in Ft Worth, TX, you need to make $20,000 per year. That's spending about 1/3 your net income on rent. It should ideally be closer to 20-25%, which would push the rent guideline up to 50-55x.
You're completely missing the point! We should ALL wish the entire country followed such stringent rental and mortgage guidelines as NYC. I can guarentee if ALL homebuyers were required to put down a minimum of 20% down on a home (and have sufficient cash reserves leftover post-purchase), home values would never have fallen 20-70% across the US since 2006-2007. We would not have had the run-up, but I think our friends in Cali, Detroit, and all over the US would choose to miss the run-up in order to avoid the collapse.
Also, 40x is a pretty lax rent guideline, except in NYC where most people do not have the additonal expense of a car. It means to rent a $500 studio in Ft Worth, TX, you need to make $20,000 per year. That's spending about 1/3 your net income on rent. It should ideally be closer to 20-25%, which would push the rent guideline up to 50-55x.
You and I will have to respectfully disagree TurtleCreek.
I will agree with you regarding the mortgage situation. That craziness began in California first, then spread through the rest of the country. The mortgage guidelines should have stayed the same then we wouldn't be in this current economic mess. Greed and need to keep up with the Joneses is what got us here.
As far as the rental situation, like I said, if I needed a co-signer to help me get an apartment in LA I'd be homeless now. Millions of americans do not have the luxury of someone that will co-sign an apartment for them, especially if they are self-sufficient adults.
For what it's worth, I respect the passion in your posts.
Thank you. I'm glad you see something wrong with this as well.
I left NYC 7 years ago and before I left Manhattan landlords wanted you to make three times the rent now it's 40, which is completely ridiculous in my opinion.
You are confused about the numbers. You think it used to be 3x and now it's 40x, but your "3x" is most likely equivalent to "36x" -- which is very close to 40x.
See, if you have a $1000 a month rent, the landlord (according to you in the years past), wanted you to make 3x the monthly rent in A MONTH, not a year, to make $36,000 per year once you mulitply by 12.
Now the standard is that the annual income should be 40x the monthly rent.
So if you're in a $1000 apartment, the income should be $40,000.
As always, if you can't pay Manhattan rents or pass the strict regulations that the landlord sets up, there are 4 other boroughs and NJ where rents will be lower.
You are confused about the numbers. You think it used to be 3x and now it's 40x, but your "3x" is most likely equivalent to "36x" -- which is very close to 40x.
See, if you have a $1000 a month rent, the landlord (according to you in the years past), wanted you to make 3x the monthly rent in A MONTH, not a year, to make $36,000 per year once you mulitply by 12.
Now the standard is that the annual income should be 40x the monthly rent.
So if you're in a $1000 apartment, the income should be $40,000.
As always, if you can't pay Manhattan rents or pass the strict regulations that the landlord sets up, there are 4 other boroughs and NJ where rents will be lower.
I agree about the other boroughs. Although, I have heard that the closer you are to Manhattan the landlords seem to be taking on the same rental guidelines. My problem is the co-signer thing.
Don't you or anyone else find the co-signer situation ridiculous if you are an able bodied, self-sufficient adult with a job that CAN pay the rent with no problem? Why a co-signer? I find something blatantly wrong with this as there are many people who cannot ask someone to co-sign for them and they shouldn't have to. Not to rent an apartment anyways.
There's all types of wrong with this and the fact that people can justify it as a good or positive thing is very telling in itself.
If the numbers don't work, you can't afford the rent.
It means that if you are an "able-bodied adult" as you say, you need to find another neighborhood/ borough/ town to live in if you need to spend more than 30% of your net pay on rent.
As some whose first NYC job (and pretty humble apartment) meant one entire paycheck went to rent and I lived off the $1150 of the other paycheck, I can tell you that without my parents (whom I am fortunate to have) buying plane tickets home for Christmas and sending me a random $20-$100 check in the mail a few times a year, I would have been toast. But at the end of the day, I didn't NEED my guarator financially to pay my rent, but if it had come to that point, my landlord would have been glad he picked me vs someone else with no guarantor.
Ps- Marilyn, it's not a "right" to live in Manhattan, it is a place for people with money. There are more affordable places to live in the other boroughs, NJ, CT, and LI.
It's a tactic for the landlords to continue to collect their rent regardless of what happens to the renter and it's another way of keeping out "undesirables".
Are you serious? So you mean to tell me that undesirable tenants should remain in the building and live among the desirable tenants who are quiet, keep to themselves and who just want a safe and peaceful place to live? This has got to be a joke. Right?
Why would anyone, tenant or landlord want to live, have or be surrounded by rowdy undesirable people??? They're undesirable for a reason. I don't get it. It makes no sense. The landlord has EVERY right to remove any "undesirable" tenant his so wishes in order to preserve a good quality of life in HIS building and neighborhood since they both go hand in hand. You remove the cancer from the situation is what you do. I'm really baffled by your comment in bold. I really am. I'm floored right now. WOW!
Last edited by victorfox; 01-05-2010 at 06:47 AM..
Landlords have an interest to protect the value of their investments (since rental property is the ONLY kind of property that should rightly be seen as an "investment"). It's not political; it's good business sense, not the "touchy feely" "everyone deserves a dream home and a pony" kind of mentality this country has right now.
Marilyn..did you read this comment? TurtleCreek is making perfect sense.
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