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Old 01-07-2010, 11:56 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,577,094 times
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[quote=SobroGuy;12325924]
Quote:
After listening through several debates, I quickly realized that Thompson had no platform or actionable plan for NYC to either move us out of this recession, or even move us in any direction at all. His mantra was simply, "Vote for me, at least I ain't Bloomberg."
I didn't think that Bloomberg offered much either to average working/middle class NYer except that he "was there for them, listening to them, and working hard for them". When in actuality he doesn't listen much. Nevertheless he has a hard job, and somebody has to do it. He has improved the city in a lot of ways, but much more needs to be done.

Quote:
He focused primarily on a strategy of DIVIDING NYC through race and classism in order to secure votes, a classic old school Democratic ploy. He is of the same Decmocratic blood of such blundering incompetence as Fernando Ferrer (epic failure Mayoral bid, same Democratic "dividing NYC" strategy, did nothing for the Bronx),
I think this is an unfair comparison. How can you possibly say Fernando Ferrer did nothing for the Bronx, when he started his first term in 1987 most of the South Bronx was still in a horrible condition, 14 years later at the end of his last term things had improved greatly. Consider the building up of Hostos Community College and Lincoln Hospital and what they offer to both the South Bronx and the Harlem communities that they service.

Quote:
David Dinkins (horrendous, do nothing Mayor who ran the city into almost complete chaos, crime and racial upheavel), and of course the "up and coming star" of the Democratic party Ruben Diaz (currently known for his "we rather be on welfare than have jobs" destruction of the Kingsbridge Armory redevelopment). Look for more incompetence from Ruben Diaz as he crushes the Bronx's progress by pandering to the usual Democratic lackies.
I know a lot of people bash David Dinkins. But he actually began the process of bringing the city back from the chaos of the late 70's - late 80's early 90's. crime actually decreased significantly during the last 3 years he was mayor. He expanded the NYPD by 25%, Rudy Giuliani, was able to build on what David Dinkins started, but the public barely remembers that Dinkins efforts started the decrease in crime.

Ruben Diaz is against recent ideas for Kingsbridge Army Plaza because the current ideas will only supply low wage, part time retail jobs. He would like to bring things like solar and other green energy manufacturing jobs, that would pay a full time living wage, with benefits, that people of the Bronx could work at and support their families with.

Quote:
Unfortunately, having Thompson as Mayor would be the equivalent of Dinkins circa 1991. Same blundering incompetence, same race-baiting/classism economic strategies, and the same result: a sinking ship for NYC. For all our sakes, I hope somewith with a BRAIN, who does not put their party first and the city last, someone who does not come fully stocked with political chronies and lackies, will step forward and squash this buffoon. There is still lots of time...so I beg you...don't let Thompson happen to us. HELP!
You cannot compare Mr. Thompson or anyone else with Mr. Dinkins because they are not inheriting the same chaotic conditions that Mr. Dinkins inherited at the beginning of his term, things have greatly improved in many ways. I do agree with this statement: " For all our sakes, I hope somewith with a BRAIN, who does not put their party first and the city last, someone who does not come fully stocked with political chronies and lackies"
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:18 PM
 
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some good points DAS..my comments:

1-DAS I think the reason why Bloomberg won in a landslide in 2005 was because he does listen. You can look at the significant improvements he made across the city to demonstrate how much he listens to the average NYer: parks in underserved communities of color, more new affordable housing (165,000 units, half-way to that goal), bike lanes, better schools (debatable), MUCH higher pay for Teachers, bringing SIGNIFICANT new investment/retail/amenities/development to poor communities of color, 1 million tree initiative, makign crime top priority. If these ACCOMPLISHMENTS (not dreams/plans) are not listening to the avg NYer, I dunno what is.

2-The comparison was made and valid because Thompson ran essentially the same campaign just tweaked for 2009. Dinkins was ushered in as the "first Black Mayor" and ran a campaign dividing this city racially...Thompson simply divided people this time by "rich vs everyone else". Same typical Democratic Strategy because they are of the same generation of Democrats. Ferrer did nothing and takes LOTS of credit....the improvements in the South Bronx were driven by the community, and were in fact hindered in more ways than helped by Ferrer. He was simply less of an obstacle, NOT a facilitator.

3-Unfortuanetly, when you are the boss, you take all the credit when things are going well, and conversely, you take all the blame when things are going poorly. And during his tenure as Mayor, Dinkins took all the blame and was QUICKLY ushered out with NO fanfare or praise. I was glad he was gone, because although he may have tried to help this city, it was always crushed by the race-baiting Democratic chronies he surrounded himself with (and still does). Thompson has not learned the lesson...you will be judged by the company you keep. NYC took note.

4-Ruben Diaz, unfortunaetel for Bronx residents, is the "rising star" of the Democratic machine because of his grandstanding for votes and race-baiting during the Kingsbridge Armory. What's the reality? There is no doubt he has plenty of "green ideas," but exactly how will it take before one of his "green ideas" come to fruition? It took 20 years to finally get SOMETHING done with the Armory, and now we are left with nothing but Ruben's "ideas." With the credit crunch upon us and with Ruben setting the precedent that if you don't pay whatever he dictates "the Bronx is not interested," (nevermind that he will shame you publicly and brand you as racist and evil), we are supposed to believe there is a long list of developers eager to move in, spend $300 million dollars to renovate and invest in a hugely risky "green" endeavor? Hmm...Ruben, as your Democratic lackies would say, "you stoopit."
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:16 PM
DAS
 
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1-I agree with the good things Bloomberg has done. But I still thing more needs to be done.

2-The city was more racially divided at the time Dinkins became mayor. Neighborhoods were more racially, and ethnically divided at that time. The Democrats didn't have to use that strategy and they didn't need to. If anything, Dinkins was criticized by some in the African American community for reaching out to others, they considered it catering to others needs, even though they still voted for him. Today most people of all races will not consider a candidate that is not for everyone, most NYer's want someone that is ready willing and able to reach out to us all.

I think that Mr. Dinkins tried his best to reach out to everyone, and he had to try to stop some of the most serious racial tensions of our time, in this city.

3-Let's just leave the Ferrer issue alone. We can agree to disagree on that one. I don't think Mr. Ferrer will run for office again, at least not yet. Everything is always driven by the communities. That is why we should all be aware of the fact that public officials are supposed to work for us. They are our representatives to get us what we need, to make the city a better place. They must listen to the citizens. We must always make them aware of what is needed. Keep in mind that what is needed for some, may not be needed by all. So there has to be a little something for everyone. Easier said than done.

4- I don't agree that Mr. Thompson has a 'rich vs everyone" initiative. Mayor Bloomberg has been very successful because he possesses the skills and savvy of an extremely successful business man, and has used his business acumen to bring billions of dollars to the city... However he still has to be reminded by regular NYer's of their needs as well.

Mr Thompson or anyone else that is elected next time will also have to be reminded by the average NYer to keep them in mind. The mayor no matter who she/he is will always have their ears tuned to the rich, we need billions, if not trillions to keep this city running strong.

4-There is too much at stake for Ruben Diaz or anyone concerned with the people that live in the Bronx to not try to do everything they can to see that the actual citizens benefit from something that can improve their lives in a significant way, along with bringing money to the developers and other investors. Most of these developers and investors will not live in the Bronx, and the daily impact of their investment will not effect them the same way it will the people in the Bronx. I think that Mr. Diaz has proved that he has more than ideas. His list is concrete. People do want to work real, living wage, full time jobs that offer skills training on the job, and career advancement.

This will improve the economy of the area greatly, because when people earn money the will spend it on other goods and services, everyone benefits. If people can only earn minimum wage, part time pay, what can they buy. The only people that benefit are the owners of the business that they work for, and the developers that sold or leased space to them. This is a far too one sided advantage.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:36 PM
 
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Quote:
4-There is too much at stake for Ruben Diaz or anyone concerned with the people that live in the Bronx to not try to do everything they can to see that the actual citizens benefit from something that can improve their lives in a significant way, along with bringing money to the developers and other investors. Most of these developers and investors will not live in the Bronx, and the daily impact of their investment will not effect them the same way it will the people in the Bronx. I think that Mr. Diaz has proved that he has more than ideas. His list is concrete. People do want to work real, living wage, full time jobs that offer skills training on the job, and career advancement.
I can see your first three points but cannot disagree more with #4. There is nothing as stake for Diaz if the development falls through, he'll blame the developers for refusing to agree to the higher wages on top of union contractors, etc, etc. The constituents love him for "making a stand." Doesn't matter if there are STILL no jobs.
It would be great if they could make a living wage but how can you justify paying an Old Navy cashier $11 and benefits or whatever the case in the Armory but a few blocks down, a cashier makes minimum wage. What business would rent it? It makes no business sense. Why would the developer agree with those terms if after building it, they can't rent it out.
Yea the developer is not a saint either, they're probably getting kickbacks, tax writeoffs, maybe we can give them less of a tax break instead and use some of that money to help revitalize the area.
If someone wants to make a "living wage" they have to have education/skills where jobs are in demand that will pay them accordingly.
The comment about rather being on welfare than working (and making a honest living) really urks me. Yes we should provide support to those living in poverty but there needs to be incentive and consequences for not working and living off entitlement programs.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:54 PM
 
8,747 posts, read 17,643,791 times
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I can generally agree with all those statements. My one comment is the second Point 4: I am all for Ruben Diaz doing the best he can for the Bronx, and NYC for that matter. Unfortunately, that was not why he turned against the Related redevelopment of the Armory. He, along with the City Council, Community Board, and residents, were negotiating for 2 years (except Ruben was recently elected) with Related and were all for the redevelopment. It was not until this Spring when the Community Board, on behalf of the residents' requests, recommended a large supermarket be added, which Related obliged.

It was at that single point where the "local" businesses like Morton Williams (a supermarket) felt threatened, went on the offensive with fake protests and artificial community outrage. The "local" businesses then push forth the "living wage" amendment and changed the debate entirely from "let's redevelop the Armory" to "pay us what we deserve." This was all strategically planned to kill any competition (the supermarket was subsequently canned), and drive the entire process to a halt. The "living wage" amendment was never even brought up over the last 2 years, that is until those "local" businesses felt threatened. Our fine Democratic Bronx Borough President saw an opportunity to make a name for himself as "for the people"...who would not want to get people higher wages after all.right? It didn't matter whether it would kill the deal, if the community was better off with this development rather than a vacant site, or that there was no plan B, all that mattered was the grandstanding for votes.

The only thing that Ruben Diaz proved is that he is well versed in the usual Bronx politics and played up fake outrage for his own benefit. But don't take my word for it, if you genuinely want to learn what really happened with the Armory, and the horrendous message Ruben Diaz has sent of "we rather chill on welfare than work", read up..this is all really informative:

After Kingsbridge, a dangerous backslide for the Bronx
publish.nyc.indymedia.org | THE KINGSBRIDGE SHUFFLE
Grandstanding on Kingsbridge costs Bronx jobs
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:04 PM
 
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Ruben Diaz is a career politician...and is a son of a politician. He was elected at the age of 23. He knows only about politics and not much about economics. The City Council can make laws but it has no power over the law of economics. You can't pay people $11 and benefits for low skilled job...well you can but it would make no economic sense for a business to do so.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:06 PM
DAS
 
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I read the articles in the Daily News and Times. But I also saw Mr Diaz in an extensive interview on News 1. No doubt he is a "polititian". However he was not talking about paying cashiers $11 an hour. He understands that a retail establishment can only pay minimum wage and hire part time workers, in order to turn a profit. That is why he doesn't support the idea of the armory being turned into some type of mall. Especially when Fordham Rd is nearby, within walking distance. IMO I agree, that is not a real job, only a teenager can work that type of job.

The developers don't have to be saints. Whether it is developed into a manufactoring center or a retail center they will make a huge profit either way.

You have one chance to take your stand, and he took it. I'm glad that he can stand the heat. It is so easy to just give in, to something that doesn't benefit the residents in the Bronx, in a significant way.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:08 PM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,577,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops99 View Post
Ruben Diaz is a career politician...and is a son of a politician. He was elected at the age of 23. He knows only about politics and not much about economics. The City Council can make laws but it has no power over the law of economics. You can't pay people $11 and benefits for low skilled job...well you can but it would make no economic sense for a business to do so.
I totally agree that is why he wants manufacturing in the green industry. The city wants to green power most of their public buildings. Why not build the needed materials in the Bronx?.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:31 PM
 
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DAS, your statement of "only a teenager can work those jobs" is PRECISELY RIGHT. Which is why when you look at retail establishments across NYC, the pay scale and demographics are all the same. But somehow Ruben wants these jobs to support a family of 4, rent, car payment, cell phones, etc. Since when did this development become billed as solving the poverty problem in the Bronx? it was never meant to do so...it was meant to give people an OPPORTUNITY to work, specifically young people who have the highest unemployment rate of ANY group in NYC, and who are the ones that are stuck hanging out on corners and end up doing the wrong things.

At the end of the day, Ruben wanted a handout. What does that mean? Retail wages pay the same everywhere in NYC, but Ruben said no, I want XYZ. Why? Because he says so and "we deserve it." Once those "local" businesses changed the debate from bringing life back to an abandoned structure to "it must solve the poverty of the Bronx" the deal was going to die. Who set the bar so high? Those "local" businesses. What group is the ONLY ones to benefit from the Armory being left vacant? It's NOT the residents, it's NOT the unemployed members of the community, it's NOT the Bronx, it is those local businesses that have secured their monopoly and profits.
Thanks Ruben!

I totally agree with bringing green jobs to the borough..why not! Since Ruben is proposing this as Plan B, where are all those developers/investors lined up to take Related's place? What's the delay? The reality is there is no Plan B, there never was, Ruben and his lackies simply cut off their nose to spite their face, and now are doing damage control by 1-Selling the idea that "no jobs/welfare is better than a job is a win for the Bronx". Huh? 2-Claiming they have all these wonderful "ideas" that are way better than any retail outlet. There are nothing but ideas, no plans, no investors/developers, and no employees to even work these jobs for that matter.

I am all for taking a stand, but this was grandstanding..there is a big difference. The only person worse for Mayor in 2013 is Ruben Diaz. I can see his platform now: "In my vision of NYC, we don't work unless we get what we deserve. I encourage all NYC residents that are working for less than $10 per hour, or working for less than they feel they deserve, to quit, and get on welfare. You deserve better!"
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:54 PM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,577,094 times
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I won't continue to debate something that is twisted and biased just because it is Ruben Diaz that is proposing it. He always knew that retail was low paying, not full time, no benefits job. So he never wanted it. The developers and retail establishments that would invest there are the ones that were pushing the issue. Hardly any of the people that would profit from this live in the Bronx. These jobs will not take anyone off of welfare.

Mr. Diaz was always proposing green manufacturing jobs. If the powers that be really wanted to do something positive for the Bronx and the city as a whole, they would get behind this idea, and stop the bickering about it being Mr. Diaz' idea, or whether it was plan A or B or Y or Z or whatever. Just do the right thing. To Mayor Bloomberg's credit he is excellent at getting things done, he would have the full support of Bronx and the city, IMO he should get this done.

You have 2 schools that could train future technicians and workers right in the Bronx. Bronx Tech HS and Bronx Community college, along with others. The Bronx has resources to do this.
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