So Called "Dangerous Areas" Of NYC=Complete exaggeration!!! (New York: violent crime, houses)

[airwair]

I lived in the South Bronx (169 and Morris, to be exact) for nearly four months. I am a white female; at the time I was 20 years old. Was it the smartest decision I ever made? No, probably not. I obviously lived through it, but there's not enough money in the world to ever make me live there again. Day or night, I didn't feel safe. Maybe that's because through out my time in the neighborhood I watched someone get stabbed in the apartment across the street, ran from gunfire a couple of blocks away, and watched someone get jumped on the subway platform. *shrug* I guess I'm just trying to say what everyone before me said-- just because you make it out of the neighborhood unscathed does not mean it is completely safe.

That being said, my husband was mugged at knife point in Times Square. Isn't that where the entire NYPD hangs out?

[JAGED]

Originally Posted by Dynamowolf

I wouldn't say a complete exaggeration, because some rather unpleasant things can happen if you don't have your wits about you, but for the most part, very exaggerated.

I just want to put a few words in for Brownsville, because I see zero representation for it on the forum. As a twenty-something Sociology major who was born and raised in Brownsville and visits family in the brick city literally every week, I can say without question that it's nowhere near as bad as this forum makes it out to be now.

Two decades ago, "Stay out of Brownsville" would be correct. One decade ago, that would be pretty accurate. Since that time however, the place has changed in ways you can't throw numbers at. The attitude of the community these past couple of years from young to old has been "enough is enough". From the projects to the brownstones, people are more concerned with getting the community together than maintaining a destructive reputation.

In recent years, there's much more local investment in the neighborhood, far more than I've ever seen before. A large number local businesses and community gardens are popping up (and staying up), and most importantly, there's not nearly as many kids on the street as it used to be (the primary cause of the horror stories associated with the Ville). But along with this progress, comes the construction of many new residencies, under the guise of "affordable housing"...y'know, the kind "undesirables" can never afford. Unsurprisingly, that's met with nothing but disgust.

A big part of that, is because no one wants to see the neighborhood become one with the Borg (a.k.a. gentrification) like neighboring Bed-Stuy, or Bushwick-in-progress. Despite popular belief, Brownsville is conscious of everything that's going on in this city, and like many of the poor and working class in NYC, they too believe it's the worst thing that could possibly happen. That's right: Locals see it as a wave of destruction, not liberation.

The community knows it stands a chance because of it's architecture - it's a little harder to convince newcomers to move into projects, let alone a neighborhood made of them. But no one's dumb. If anyone knows money can change anything, it's lower-income families, whom quite a number of newcomers (and some affluent, long-time residents) in NYC seem know very little about aside from fairy tales.

Now, I won't lie to anyone and say that you can walk the streets of the Ville at 2AM completely safe and sound. Neither, can you roll up on a high horse and expect not to get brought back down to Earth by some very vocal locals, but compared to back when, that's probably the worst that can happen (unless you really tick someone off, of course).

Much like a Spike Lee movie, these days, social consciousness is on the rise in the Ville. There's less people looking to cause trouble, and a growing number of concerned people bracing for it, because of the reckless sense of entitlement that's threatening to destroy communities across north and east Brooklyn.

Bottom line is, places like the Ville, ENY, etc. have been dangerous because the mentality has been dangerous. Once that shifts, so does the danger. It's a social problem, not a problem you throw money at - especially, if it's supposed to be for "your own good", which quite frankly no one living in poverty takes kindly to. The truth is, when you've got little, that little is your everything, and to go to work one day just to come home to nothing, is truly frightening.

So while I do agree with the OP that the danger is without a doubt exaggerated these days, I wouldn't totally let my guard down. It can still get very hostile, but 9 times out of 10, the reasons will be justified. People on this end of Brooklyn are pushed against a wall by a little more than the usual societal ills this time, and with all the above plus other impending problems like Student MetroCard cuts, it wouldn't surprise me if someone flips out because they're having a really bad day.

Well, you were born there and I can see that you are trying to give your neighborhood an optimistic point of view. However, you grew up in Brownsville and you became used to the neighborhood's vibe. Other people don't know what Brownsville is like unless they grew up there.

And secondly, Brownsville had over 30 homicides in 2008, which is pretty damn high. I understand that the area has made improvements, but it's probably the most dangerous neighborhood in the city.

[DoubleXAs]

Brownsville back during the crack days wasn't the worst neighborhood or even in the top 5. It was bad but there were much more worse areas to go to. But as all those other neighborhoods improved, Browsnville stayed pretty much true to form. That is why in 2008, Brownsville had more homicides than it did in 1995.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Brownsville back during the crack days wasn't the worst neighborhood or even in the top 5. It was bad but there were much more worse areas to go to. But as all those other neighborhoods improved, Browsnville stayed pretty much true to form. That is why in 2008, Brownsville had more homicides than it did in 1995.

false.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...s/cs073pct.pdf

brownsville has always been one of the city's highest crime and impoverished neighborhoods, going back as far as the 1920s. read about it.
the only place in the bronx that reminds me of brownsville is the south bronx.

[DoubleXAs]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

false.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...s/cs073pct.pdf

brownsville has always been one of the city's highest crime and impoverished neighborhoods, going back as far as the 1920s. read about it.
the only place in the bronx that reminds me of brownsville is the south bronx.

1990 stats per rates:

Precincts in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and The Bronx :

Murder rates:

48th (E. Tremont) - 201 per 100,000
41st (Hunts Point) - 112 per 100,000
28th+32nd (Central Harlem) - 108 per 100,000
42nd (Morrisania) - 94 per 100,000
40th (Mott Haven) - 93 per 100,000
83rd (Bushwick) - 75 per 100,000
44th (Highbridge) - 74 per 100,000
73rd (Brownsville) - 71 per 100,000
46th (Tremont) - 69 per 100,000
75th (East NY) - 68 per 100,000
30th (W.Harlem) - 65 per 100,000
67th+70th (E.Flatbush/Flatbush) - 61 per 100,000
23rd+25th (E.Harlem) - 60 per 100,000
34th (Wash Heights) - 52 per 100,000

I don't have Bed Stuy because the precinct number was hard to get, but I bet it was higher than Brownsville.

My point exactly though. It wasn't the worst neighborhood...and IMO not in the top 5. Anyone who believes so is drinking the B-ville cool aid. I never said it wasn't bad though, just not top 5 bad.

[Andez]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

1990 stats per rates:

Precincts in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and The Bronx :

Murder rates:

48th (E. Tremont) - 201 per 100,000
41st (Hunts Point) - 112 per 100,000
28th+32nd (Central Harlem) - 108 per 100,000
42nd (Morrisania) - 94 per 100,000
40th (Mott Haven) - 93 per 100,000
83rd (Bushwick) - 75 per 100,000
44th (Highbridge) - 74 per 100,000
73rd (Brownsville) - 71 per 100,000
46th (Tremont) - 69 per 100,000
75th (East NY) - 68 per 100,000
30th (W.Harlem) - 65 per 100,000
67th+70th (E.Flatbush/Flatbush) - 61 per 100,000
23rd+25th (E.Harlem) - 60 per 100,000
34th (Wash Heights) - 52 per 100,000

I don't have Bed Stuy because the precinct number was hard to get, but I bet it was higher than Brownsville.

My point exactly though. It wasn't the worst neighborhood...and IMO not in the top 5. Anyone who believes so is drinking the B-ville cool aid. I never said it wasn't bad though, just not top 5 bad.

In terms of robberies though... for such a small area it had an insane amount of robberies.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

1990 stats per rates:

Precincts in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and The Bronx :

Murder rates:

48th (E. Tremont) - 201 per 100,000
41st (Hunts Point) - 112 per 100,000
28th+32nd (Central Harlem) - 108 per 100,000
42nd (Morrisania) - 94 per 100,000
40th (Mott Haven) - 93 per 100,000
83rd (Bushwick) - 75 per 100,000
44th (Highbridge) - 74 per 100,000
73rd (Brownsville) - 71 per 100,000
46th (Tremont) - 69 per 100,000
75th (East NY) - 68 per 100,000
30th (W.Harlem) - 65 per 100,000
67th+70th (E.Flatbush/Flatbush) - 61 per 100,000
23rd+25th (E.Harlem) - 60 per 100,000
34th (Wash Heights) - 52 per 100,000

I don't have Bed Stuy because the precinct number was hard to get, but I bet it was higher than Brownsville.

My point exactly though. It wasn't the worst neighborhood...and IMO not in the top 5. Anyone who believes so is drinking the B-ville cool aid. I never said it wasn't bad though, just not top 5 bad.

why do u use averages for murder rates instead of just counting the actual number of homicides that occur by precinct? it doesnt make sense to go by murder per 100,000 people because the actual population of the precinct varies...so you can have a precinct that is home to 200,000 people that averages 100 murders for every 100,000 people, then another precinct that is home to 100,000 people, but averages 50 murders for every 100,000....it works out to the the same percentage. do u see where i'm coming from? so unless you know the population of all those precincts in 1990 you posted above, this means nothing. and i dont know why you had problems getting bed stuy. bed stuy is covered by the 79th and 81st.

[DoubleXAs]

Wow Seventh, the point is if the 41st precinct has only 40,000 people and the 73rd precinct has 75,000 people, the 73rd is going to get much more in terms of raw total. I don't even look at raw totals. What the rate tells you is that if Hunts Point had the same population as Brownsville it would have had x amount of murders.

You think is a coincidence that the 75th basically leads in homicides every year? It's also the largest precinct.


And I don't know what went wrong but the Stuy had a 51 murder rate...and thas way too low.

[DoubleXAs]

But you want populations...here you go:

Bronx:

40th - 77, 214
41st - 39,443
42nd - 57,162
44th - 119,962
46th- 118,435
48th- 68,061

Brooklyn:

67th+70th - 161,261
73rd- 84,923
75th - 161,350
83rd- 102,572

Manhattan:

23rd+25th- 110,508
26th+30th - 106,978
28th+32nd- 99,159
34th - 198,192

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Wow Seventh, the point is if the 41st precinct has only 40,000 people and the 73rd precinct has 75,000 people, the 73rd is going to get much more in terms of raw total. I don't even look at raw totals. What the rate tells you is that if Hunts Point had the same population as Brownsville it would have had x amount of murders.

You think is a coincidence that the 75th basically leads in homicides every year? It's also the largest precinct.


And I don't know what went wrong but the Stuy had a 51 murder rate...and thas way too low.

well thats what i was trying to tell you...you posted the murder rate per 100,000 without providing the actual population of the precincts. so my point was unless you provided the population along with it, the info was meaningless. 75th (east new york) is one of the largest in land area. that doesnt mean that it is the largest in population. i'm pretty sure the 70th (flatbush) and 67th (east flatbush) have more people living in it than eny. i dont know how well you know brownsville but its a small area in land size that the 73rd patrols. basically you can get from one end of the precinct ot the other in like 5 minutes if u was cop with your sirens blaring. eny is only among the leaders in homicides because it has some of the worst projects in brooklyn in it.