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View Poll Results: Would you welcome new developments (jobs, housing, more residents) to the Upstate NY Region?
Yes, I believe that the Upstate NY region has the potential for new development. 37 71.15%
No, I do not believe the Upstate NY region has the potential for new development because the region is dead or dying. 15 28.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-29-2011, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Syracuse IS Central New York.
8,514 posts, read 4,481,627 times
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Much of what has been said is the truth: NYS politics is dominated by NYC area politicians and Upstate does not have much of a voice, lack of jobs, and property taxes are killing Upstate.

However, what Upstate NY needs to do is develop its own identity. Upstate NY isn't going to be NYC. So what's wrong with that? Nothing at all.

Upstate NY has a great many under utilized and under appreciated resources. Instead of trying to be someplace else, Upstate needs to be a lot more positive and comfortable in its own skin.

It's about the jobs folks, and the # 1 problem is the high property tax rates.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:08 AM
 
4,135 posts, read 10,773,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn View Post
There is a current thread entitled "ending the high cost of living in the 5 boroughs of NYC " along with a poll taking place in the NYC forum so I figured why not pose a similar question here in the general NY forum. Who knows maybe I will actually get some positive feedback this time. As I am sure you are all aware there are constant complaints by those living in NYC about the outrageous cost of living. Yet there seems to be an un-justified reluctance by NYC residents to develop and live in the areas in upstate NY. There are some on the NYC forum who have stated that the upstate NY region is dead or dying and therefore not a viable place for new development.

This question is for those who either A) currently live in the upstate NY region or B) plan on moving to the upstate NY region. If you are planning on moving to the upstate NY region please share with us the reasons you chose upstate NY over NYC as a place to live?

Question #1
Would you welcome more development that would include new companies (jobs) new housing & more NYC residents to the upstate NY region?

Question #2
Do you believe that the upstate NY region has the potential to be developed and become a destination where more people will want to live?

I believe that there is too much focus placed on NYC which has resulted in limited development in the rest of the state. In addition I believe that development in the rest of the state will put an end to the current high cost of living problem in NYC...as well as benefit the upstate NY region.

Please unlike other threads on this forum lets keep our responses on topic, positive, and avoid personal attacks. We do not all have to agree but should be respectful of others opinions. Looking for ideas and open conversation.
Certainly the potential is here. It is fine for anyone to come as long as the people try to fit in with the area. I came from downstate over 40 years ago and found it wonderful -- did college, married, had kids and raised a family and we stayed here, even retired. Now the cost is so low to live it is ridiculous ( no bills but our taxes and utilities, other than what we spend when we feel like it) With all the cost of living so high downstate, businesses are foolish to not relocate part of the workforce up here in the other end of the state. There are lots of homes -- costing less than 60% of a home on LI; many way lower. Lots of things like housing don't need "developing" -- it is here. Where can you buy a beautiful Victorian for under $200KI near NYC? Or brand new homes for $250K? Or an older 3Br/IBa for less than $150K? Apts at $600-1000 ( the first being usually in homes, flats and the latter being new and in developments )We have it all already -- no need to build it..

With telecommuting, a person could work from here and go to the company ( physically) once a month or so if need be. Offices are way cheaper per sq. foot for physical offices. A "long" commute is 30 min here -- during rush hour -- from most burbs to the city. Biggest problem I see? lots of people could slow the highways...
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: New York City
1,556 posts, read 3,534,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpacker View Post
The concept has been lightly brought up every few years by a local politician, but it never gains any traction.

We couldn't do any worse. It's not like it would leave the USA. I think the business environment and taxes would be much friendlier, and we would actually not have worry about NYC. The issues and people are very different.

In reality, it's nothing more than a pipe dream.

Just curious, do you live in NYC?
Read a few posts back....yes I live in NYC, born and raised in Brooklyn. However unlike the average NYC resident I want to see a more even distribution of jobs, people, prosperity and affordable housing for the entire state. I agree with your sentiments about NYC because I feel that because it is the "it city" everybody focus's on it. Tried having a constructive conversation in the NYC forum about how development of the upstate NY region can help that area as well as help NYC by alleviating the crowds here and bringing down the ridiculous cost of living. I asked a similar question here because I believed that I would get some intelligent feedback instead of the negativity and the "I don't care about upstate NY" feedback that I have been receiving in the NYC forum. It seems they have all become so focused on NEVER living anywhere else in the state to the point where they have totally erased from their minds the fact that there are lots of undeveloped areas outside of NYC borders. I have found a really selfish trait about some of my fellow residents here....they have this attitude like "how does developing the upstate NY area benefit me" and it is very sad that people cannot see the correlation.

NYC vs. upstate NY peoples and issues may be different but there is one common solution to solve both regions problems. Development of the upstate NY area will bring jobs, housing, new residents (revenue) helping those living there while at the same time help alleviate the high COL and crowding in NYC.

You are right it is nothing more than a pipe dream because the state will never split in half.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: New York City
1,556 posts, read 3,534,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant View Post
Certainly the potential is here. It is fine for anyone to come as long as the people try to fit in with the area. I came from downstate over 40 years ago and found it wonderful -- did college, married, had kids and raised a family and we stayed here, even retired. Now the cost is so low to live it is ridiculous ( no bills but our taxes and utilities, other than what we spend when we feel like it) With all the cost of living so high downstate, businesses are foolish to not relocate part of the workforce up here in the other end of the state. There are lots of homes -- costing less than 60% of a home on LI; many way lower. Lots of things like housing don't need "developing" -- it is here. Where can you buy a beautiful Victorian for under $200KI near NYC? Or brand new homes for $250K? Or an older 3Br/IBa for less than $150K? Apts at $600-1000 ( the first being usually in homes, flats and the latter being new and in developments )We have it all already -- no need to build it..

With telecommuting, a person could work from here and go to the company ( physically) once a month or so if need be. Offices are way cheaper per sq. foot for physical offices. A "long" commute is 30 min here -- during rush hour -- from most burbs to the city. Biggest problem I see? lots of people could slow the highways...
Did you have a chance to read the thread in the NYC forum? "Ending the high cost of Living in the 5 Boroughs of NYC".

If not than I think it would be a good idea for everybody here to join in on the conversation and complete the poll. As well as others on here being that you all seem to get what I am saying. Yes they are very foolish to leave such a large area of the state empty when it is so much cheaper than offices in Manhattan.

Not that I am saying take jobs from the city....but like you said transfer the already existing jobs upstate. In this economy people will go wherever they can keep their jobs.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Not Oneida
2,909 posts, read 4,251,554 times
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The thing is nobody wants to I guess. These companies are free to do so right now. Even given that NYS is extremely hostile to business these companies have already found a way to live with that in the city. They could leave tomorrow.

A rising tide lifts all boats so us already up here could get jobs fixing up homes(they need ALOT of work) then later building new ones. Selling and fixing car for our new drivers(this may be a problem). Waiters and waitress's in the eating places and on and on.

BUT, and this is a huge BUTT, if people wanted to live up here they already could. People will come if the jobs do but for whatever reason the companies don't want to be up here and we can't force them.
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Old 06-30-2011, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,041 posts, read 16,849,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean® View Post
The thing is nobody wants to I guess. These companies are free to do so right now. Even given that NYS is extremely hostile to business these companies have already found a way to live with that in the city. They could leave tomorrow.

A rising tide lifts all boats so us already up here could get jobs fixing up homes(they need ALOT of work) then later building new ones. Selling and fixing car for our new drivers(this may be a problem). Waiters and waitress's in the eating places and on and on.

BUT, and this is a huge BUTT, if people wanted to live up here they already could. People will come if the jobs do but for whatever reason the companies don't want to be up here and we can't force them.
Good points but some things to consider..

1) NYC is an expensive beast to suceed in I think the companies that have chosen to locate their are doing so because of location. If they wanted to relocate to save on costs odds are they would consider an area other than NY for reasons you have allready stated.

2) If there was a company that wanted to relocate upstate odds are the salaries would lowered than what is paid in the NYC Metro.

3) Telecommuting is great if available but most jobs that allow it still want the employee to come to the office every week or so. You also would need a couple that both have this option or one will still be tied to a commuting drive.

4) People in the NYC metro may complain like no tomorrow but they really do thrive on that enviroment. When Phillip Morris (Altria) was relocating ther US headquarters from NYC to here in Richmond over a third would not relocate out of NY and left their jobs. You would probally experience the same thing with if a company announced it was relocating to Buffalo.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:23 PM
 
Location: New York City
1,556 posts, read 3,534,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
Good points but some things to consider..

1) NYC is an expensive beast to suceed in I think the companies that have chosen to locate their are doing so because of location. If they wanted to relocate to save on costs odds are they would consider an area other than NY for reasons you have allready stated.

2) If there was a company that wanted to relocate upstate odds are the salaries would lowered than what is paid in the NYC Metro.

3) Telecommuting is great if available but most jobs that allow it still want the employee to come to the office every week or so. You also would need a couple that both have this option or one will still be tied to a commuting drive.

4) People in the NYC metro may complain like no tomorrow but they really do thrive on that enviroment. When Phillip Morris (Altria) was relocating ther US headquarters from NYC to here in Richmond over a third would not relocate out of NY and left their jobs. You would probally experience the same thing with if a company announced it was relocating to Buffalo.


Good point, but with a recession, bad job market, a very competitive NYC job market that seems to only get more competitive I am quite sure if it were a choice between relocation to upstate NY or unemployment in NYC (praying to get another job quickly) I am willing to bet it would be a clear choice for most. Was the Philip Morris relocation before the recession?

But you said it better than I could have......with all of the complaints I hear in this city about the COL you would think that when I created a thread to discuss ways to alleviate it that I would have received more positive responses......yeah they definitely like things the way it is, expensive shoe box apartments and all!
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,041 posts, read 16,849,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn View Post
[/b]

Good point, but with a recession, bad job market, a very competitive NYC job market that seems to only get more competitive I am quite sure if it were a choice between relocation to upstate NY or unemployment in NYC (praying to get another job quickly) I am willing to bet it would be a clear choice for most. Was the Philip Morris relocation before the recession?

But you said it better than I could have......with all of the complaints I hear in this city about the COL you would think that when I created a thread to discuss ways to alleviate it that I would have received more positive responses......yeah they definitely like things the way it is, expensive shoe box apartments and all!
I just saw your posting in the NYC Blog and read some of the responses, many hold water. NYC has expanded beyond it's borders and many company's are maintaining back offices outside the city in the burbs.

Upstate had a manufacturing economy and that collapsed. Most of the cities have yet to find the right fix to bring significant employment in. There are pluses to relocate a company and minuses as with any area.

Looking to transplant NYC based company's won't happen, people don't want to migrate (except for welfare recipiants). The first step for any locale is accepting that they can't recreate what they were, once accepted they can solidify a plan on what they are looking to achieve.

Richmonders always talk about recreating downtown to what it was 50 years ago. Well it's gone! Even if all the stores were still there why would people want to travel into the city to shop? Everything is in the suburbs. As i've said before Richmond Like Albany died 50 years ago, if it wasn't the state capital it would have shut down years ago. And as i've read many of the upstate burbs are doing quite well.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:55 PM
 
979 posts, read 4,441,497 times
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Quote:
with all of the complaints I hear in this city about the COL you would think that when I created a thread to discuss ways to alleviate it that I would have received more positive responses
Patient suffering from a crucifixion complex...

GREETINGS TO THE PEOPLE OF NYS. If anybody is interested, here's a link to the the OP's thread in the NYC forum.

Ending the high cost of living in the 5 boroughs of NYC

You can see how badly this ignorant clown has been spanked. Other then trying to narrowly limit the discussion to the "Upstate NYS region" and how is bears no relationship to NYC, he has been roundly criticized and remedially reminded of basic facts and 6th grade history and of how little he knows about what he talks.
Other then a magical tax incentive he brings nothing to the table.

If spewing forth on the internet wasted resources this person has killed a thousand virtual trees.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: New York City
1,556 posts, read 3,534,994 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
I just saw your posting in the NYC Blog and read some of the responses, many hold water. NYC has expanded beyond it's borders and many company's are maintaining back offices outside the city in the burbs.

Upstate had a manufacturing economy and that collapsed. Most of the cities have yet to find the right fix to bring significant employment in. There are pluses to relocate a company and minuses as with any area.

Looking to transplant NYC based company's won't happen, people don't want to migrate (except for welfare recipiants). The first step for any locale is accepting that they can't recreate what they were, once accepted they can solidify a plan on what they are looking to achieve.

Richmonders always talk about recreating downtown to what it was 50 years ago. Well it's gone! Even if all the stores were still there why would people want to travel into the city to shop? Everything is in the suburbs. As i've said before Richmond Like Albany died 50 years ago, if it wasn't the state capital it would have shut down years ago. And as i've read many of the upstate burbs are doing quite well.
Exactly! Glad you took a look at it. We have over 8 million people living in one city and counting. Everyday there is a new thread posted on here by someone from another country or another state looking for answers about moving to NYC.

While newcomers are the backbone that built this city, how many more people can keep coming here when it is already overcrowded? Neighborhoods are gentrifying....people who normally would live in Manhattan are now running across the east river in droves to Brooklyn because the apartment rents are cheaper....but then their presence in the area causes the prices in that neighborhood to sky rocket displacing long time residents. Everyone seems to have the attitude that gentrification is good.....I say that it only shifts the problem from one area to another.

All this when there is an entire state that is more than enough room to house everyone. I posted the thread because of the constant complaints about cost of living that I see all the time. Figured instead of complaining people would want to have a discussion about developing the other areas of the state in order to bring about change. As you can see by the negativity I was wrong!
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