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Can someone familiar with both regions explain to me what makes Upstate New York culturally, socially, economically, and politically different from the New England region? Also, how is Upstate New York different from New England in terms of settlement patterns, population trends, suburban sprawl, infrastructure, taxes, employment opportunities, job growth, cost of living, geography, etc.? Are the two regions really all that much different from each other?
My definition of Upstate New York includes ALL of the counties north and west of Rockland, Westchester, and Putnam Counties. So, when I use the term 'Upstate New York,' I am referring to all of the counties in the Capitol Region, Northern New York, Central New York, and Western New York; as well as counties that might be considered in limbo, such as Orange and Ulster Counties. Please don't let this become an argument as to what counties constitute 'Upstate New York.' Everyone seems to have a differing opinions as to what counties in the State of New York form the 'Upstate' region. In my opinion, any county north or west of the counties constituting the New York metropolitan area can be considered 'Upstate.' I have quite a few relatives who reside in Rockland County and several good friends who reside in Westchester County, and although those counties more closely approximate Upstate New York than, let's say, Nassau County; they are still largely within the New York City sphere of influence.
Last edited by WhatUpFLA; 08-03-2011 at 01:10 AM..
To be honest, they aren't that much different, except that Western NY has more of a Midwestern influence. I guess you can say that Upstate NY is more affordable, but parts of New England(Western Mass. and much of the region north of Massachusetts) can be relatively affordable on a national level too.
Most of Upstate NY was settled as an extension of New England and many of the historical factors since then have been similar. The setup of local government is a bit different because there are stonger counties in NY than in New England and the brunt of the costs of statewide social policies set downstate are pushed onto the counties.
Northern-most PA was settled as a New England/NY extension (check out the stone walls in Susquehanna County, PA), and the rural-est areas of northern PA might seem almost more New Englandish with strong town (in PA a "township") government and weaker county government.
Most of Upstate NY was settled as an extension of New England and many of the historical factors since then have been similar. The setup of local government is a bit different because there are stonger counties in NY than in New England and the brunt of the costs of statewide social policies set downstate are pushed onto the counties.
Northern-most PA was settled as a New England/NY extension (check out the stone walls in Susquehanna County, PA), and the rural-est areas of northern PA might seem almost more New Englandish with strong town (in PA a "township") government and weaker county government.
Good point and I believe the county government concept is actually some thing that NY implemented within the last 40 years or so, if I'm not mistaken. So, I believe NY at one time had a similar government set up as well.
I think some parts of upstate NY are similar to some New England states. Ethnically, it is similar to Connecticuit, some parts of Massachusettes and Providence. Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are the opposite ethnically. Those states are very white majority with very few minorities. That's the biggest differences within those states. Upstate NY is more rundown than the majority of New England states too. With the exception of Massachussettes, Providence and some cities in Connecticuit. Upstate NY cities are much bigger. For instance, I think the Buffalo area has more people than the whole state of Vermont. New Hampshire's biggest city is Manchester and it is almost too small (about 100,000) or memorable to even stand out. Maines biggest city Portland is about 60,000. Massachussettes and Connecticuit bigger cities are on par with upstate NY cities. Besides Boston, Buffalo and Rochester are similar in population to Hartford, Providence and Bridgeport.
There are actually a lot of differences I think. Upstate NY is more diverse as a state. From the mountains, to the great lakes, to Niagara falls, and everything in between. I have always thought NY was one of the more diverse states. Having some of the most beautiful mountain ranges like the Adirondacks and the Catskills. NY harbors two great lakes. Ontario for Rochester and Buffalo has part of Erie. How many states can say that? Toronto and NYC are a jump skip away from most places in upstate NY as well as beautiful New England. Upstate has a monster in NYC within hours of many upstate cities as well as having Canada's largest city nearby.
When I'm in New England, I feel like I'm in New England. The towns are smaller, more quaint, cleaner, and much safer. New York has plenty of small towns that are safe too, but they range in their feel. Some can feel a bit like New England and some can feel like New York and some even like North Carolina.
What does it matter anyway because the Northeast itself is a great region, that any state can really be proud to be a part of.
Maine is sort of flat. Vermont looks pretty much the same throughout much of the state (mountain wise). New Hampshire is the most moutainous out of those three and the topography seems more similar to NY. Upstate NY is sort of a mix between New Hampshire and Massachusettes.
Last I looked Cortland NY would be the 2nd largest city if it were in VT.
Also it would be news to an Appalachian Trail hiker that "Maine is sort of flat" - Katahdin tops out just a tiny bit lower than Mt Marcy but it's a far more rugged hike with more alpine terrain than NY has.
When I lived in NNY you knew when you crossed over into Vermont, it was so much nicer, cleaner & just less depressing. Rouses Point has a little bit of New England charm to it but once you get just a little ways inland from Lake Champlain that NE charm disappears real quick.
and many more. I will say that there is a gritty vibe in parts of many New England cities and towns as well. Many of the mill towns have that look in parts of town for example.
Upstate NY is VERY similar to New England, minus the shoreline, which is amazing (and there's no Yankees fans in New england )
There are many economically depressed areas, but New England has that also unfortunately.
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- Katahdin tops out just a tiny bit lower than Mt Marcy but it's a far more rugged hike with more alpine terrain than NY has.
