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If you don't factor cost of living into any such equation I would have to question where you went to school. If I wanted to make an intellectually dishonest argument I'd point out that most places upstate have a higher property tax rate.
With that said if you look at graduation rates, regents performance, AP testing performance and standardized testing performance you have some excellent schools both upstate and downstate. However, the next tier becomes a little more heavy towards upstate and the tier after that is pretty much all upstate.
The low rung is pretty much all city schools.
Florida just isn't close - in the Education Week quality reports FL made a big jump .... up to #10 last year and #8 this year .... they still lag behind NY in this rating, however as shown the nature of the ranking paints a much better picture than what actually exists
Student Acheivement Scores on National Testing = D-
Funding per Student = F (bottom fifth in the nation)
College Readiness = F
High School Graduation Rate = 45th in the nation
Florida ranks as the 35th most expensive state to live in from a cost of living perspective, yet they fund their public schools at a level near the 45th lowest rate
More than 1/2 of FL HS graduates entering colleges in FL need remediation in Math, Reading or Writing ..... which is very poor considering the quality of the FL college system
If you don't factor cost of living into any such equation I would have to question where you went to school. If I wanted to make an intellectually dishonest argument I'd point out that most places upstate have a higher property tax rate.
With that said if you look at graduation rates, regents performance, AP testing performance and standardized testing performance you have some excellent schools both upstate and downstate. However, the next tier becomes a little more heavy towards upstate and the tier after that is pretty much all upstate.
The low rung is pretty much all city schools.
Florida just isn't close - in the Education Week quality reports FL made a big jump .... up to #10 last year and #8 this year .... they still lag behind NY in this rating, however as shown the nature of the ranking paints a much better picture than what actually exists
Student Acheivement Scores on National Testing = D-
Funding per Student = F (bottom fifth in the nation)
College Readiness = F
High School Graduation Rate = 45th in the nation
Florida ranks as the 35th most expensive state to live in from a cost of living perspective, yet they fund their public schools at a level near the 45th lowest rate
More than 1/2 of FL HS graduates entering colleges in FL need remediation in Math, Reading or Writing ..... which is very poor considering the quality of the FL college system
Good information and there are school districts in Upstate NY like: New Hartford, Fayetteville-Manlius, Pittsford, Brighton, Williamsville, Vestal, Skaneateles, North Colonie, Cazenovia, Niskayuna, Burnt Hills and many more that I would put up against any Downstate school districts.
If you don't factor cost of living into any such equation I would have to question where you went to school. If I wanted to make an intellectually dishonest argument I'd point out that most places upstate have a higher property tax rate.
Then you can add in some of the highest income and sales tax rates into the equation and get a truer sense of how expensive it is to live in NYS as a whole.
Quote:
Florida just isn't close - in the Education Week quality reports FL made a big jump .... up to #10 last year and #8 this year .... they still lag behind NY in this rating, however as shown the nature of the ranking paints a much better picture than what actually exists
Florida ranks as the 35th most expensive state to live in from a cost of living perspective, yet they fund their public schools at a level near the 45th lowest rate
Where are you getting your data from? Just try this calculator: [Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed
and you'll see that FL is cheaper by a mile (compare syracuse to Tampa).
FL is well-known to be a low COL/low-tax state. In 2008, NY's overall tax burden was #2 in the country. FL's burden was 47th.
More than 1/2 of FL HS graduates entering colleges in FL need remediation in Math, Reading or Writing ..... which is very poor considering the quality of the FL college system
Funny because NY and FL seem to have equal numbers of schools (20) in Newsweek's 2010 Top High school list. My public HS in FL was in the top 100 and I got a great education
As for the FL college system, it's no worse or better than the SUNY system in NY. In fact, I'd argue that UF probably has a stronger student body than what you'd see at SUNY Binghamton, which is considered to be the top SUNY undergrad school IIRC.
Then you can add in some of the highest income and sales tax rates into the equation and get a truer sense of how expensive it is to live in NYS as a whole.
Where are you getting your data from? Just try this calculator: Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed
and you'll see that FL is cheaper by a mile (compare syracuse to Tampa).
FL is well-known to be a low COL/low-tax state. In 2008, NY's overall tax burden was #2 in the country. FL's burden was 47th.
Funny because NY and FL seem to have equal numbers of schools (20) in Newsweek's 2010 Top High school list. My public HS in FL was in the top 100 and I got a great education
As for the FL college system, it's no worse or better than the SUNY system in NY. In fact, I'd argue that UF probably has a stronger student body than what you'd see at SUNY Binghamton, which is considered to be the top SUNY undergrad school IIRC.
Very misleading post in terms of the SAT due to the fact that NY usually has the highest percentage of students taking that test, while the ACT is stressed in other regions of the country more, like the South. So, to compare on that basis doesn't make too much sense.
Second, there are areas in Upstate NY that are about as affordable as much of Florida, if not more so. That's with the highest rate of taxes in Upstate NY too. So, the tax aspect is only one aspect in terms of total costs.
Also, if you look at US News's schools list, NY has more schools listed than just about any other state, if not more so. I believe if you go outside of the top 100, it becomes a runaway between the two states in favor of NY. Don't forget that NY has one of the top 3 percentages of students taking AP courses and passing the exams.
As for the state college systems, there are many SUNY schools with top 50 programs of some kind with schools like Geneseo, Albany, Stony Brook, UB and of course Binghamton. Can't forget about SUNY-ESF in Syracuse and Oswego with it's good communications program too.
I also wasn't comparing the cost of living in FL to that of NY. I was comparing that of FL to the nation. The point being that many states with low per student funding also have low cost of livings, low average incomes, etc. So when you scale the information it become a little more balanced. Places that have high cost of livings tend to have high funding for education, etc.
It's unique to find a state that has a high cost of living and very low education funding - this is the scenario in FL.
NYS has a high cost of living for sure.
I also wasn't limited the college/university structure to just public universities either.
The public systems are structured very differently with NY having smaller, more specialized schools. The private systems in the two states can't even come close to being compared.
If you look at the top 100 universities in the 2010 US News rankings you see the big 3 of FL are all pretty much top 100. Public UF (47), Public FSU (102) and Private Miami (50)
NY has 5 national universities ranked before UF and 6 ranked after Miami. That puts 11 schools in the top 100 - 3 of them are SUNY schools.
If you look at baccalaureate college rankings FL has 2 that are ranked in the Southern region with a total score of 80 & 74. They have 4 tier 3 schools and 1 tier 4 school. NYs top 2 schools rank 100 and 80. There are a total of 9 schools ranked. 5 tier 3 schools and 4 tier 4 schools.
For liberal arts colleges it's a complete runaway. FL has 1 in the top 100 (ranked 97th) and 1 tier 3 school. NY has 11 ranked, 10 of which are top 100 (actually they are top 68). FL has 1 school in tier 3 - NY has 4. And while FL can't be found in tier 4 NY adds 4 more schools.
I've always thought that the prospect of dividing the state from NYC is a pipe dream. Many of upstates problems could be solved if we could all work together, which doesn't happen now. Can you imagine if for instance Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo would stick together legislativly. That would be a block of 3 million people. Five million in all of upstate. Not a majority, but I still think we would have the clout to get things done like removing the thruway tolls and relaxing some of the mandates. Removing the tolls is much cheaper and a faster way to create collaboration amongst the big cities adjacent to it.
It's unique to find a state that has a high cost of living and very low education funding - this is the scenario in FL.
You keep asserting this without providing any type of supporting evidence. It's well-known that FL has lower property tax rates, a lower sales tax, and no income tax, not to mention lower gas taxes. The recent bubble made housing unaffordable for many, but now with the bust, housing prices are in fact quite affordable.
Once again .... you need to look at more than one side of the coin
If you look at mainly services, index baskets of set goods with their average costs, etc you'll see that with this report that FL is 25th in the nation
There has been some improvement in the cost of living due to housing prices dropping and with the tourism industry being more aggressive to draw people the prices of some services in tourist heavy areas are decreasing.
Another thing you need to look at is that things don't just happen in a vacuum. There is a net effect. Sure you may not pay state income tax, but you're still paying federal like everyone else. What will that do for the avege net wage?
You need to consider what your net wage will be in comparison to other regions. Then consider the cost of what you purchase to other regions. The blend of that will be the affordability of a region - even if it isn't true cost of living (which focuses on the expendature side)
shows FL as the 29th highest overall cost of living with the 30th most expensive housing costs
As shown here FL is also is pretty low on average median income (data is a 2 yr average from 07-08 .... most recent data has not been compiled .... there have been obvious changes since then, but I think on the whole the picture probably hasn't changed that drastically) .... it was 20th in the US at this time
I've always thought that the prospect of dividing the state from NYC is a pipe dream. Many of upstates problems could be solved if we could all work together, which doesn't happen now. Can you imagine if for instance Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo would stick together legislativly. That would be a block of 3 million people. Five million in all of upstate. Not a majority, but I still think we would have the clout to get things done like removing the thruway tolls and relaxing some of the mandates. Removing the tolls is much cheaper and a faster way to create collaboration amongst the big cities adjacent to it.
I agree and I feel that Upstate areas need to look at consolidating some services and thinking on more of a regional basis too.
Once again .... you need to look at more than one side of the coin
If you look at mainly services, index baskets of set goods with their average costs, etc you'll see that with this report that FL is 25th in the nation
So in terms of COL of major population states (CA, NY, TX, PA, NJ etc.), FL is doing pretty well. Obviously it's cheaper to live in the middle of nowhere (WV, ID, AR, MS, ND etc.)
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