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You get the quality of determining how best to spend your own $$, rather than having NYS make that decision for you.
Upstate NY has lost too much population to do otherwise. It has to consolidate, or else services will continue to cost even more than they should.
The taxes don't go up nearly as fast, because the government knows how to keep a lid on the budget. New York on the other hand doesn't know how to do anything else except spend. The most recent budget increased spending 9%, at a time where there is very little inflation in the whole country.
And by attracting those corporations, you get real job creation. In places like syracuse and rochester, the only drivers of job creation are education and healthcare. Syracuse's two biggest employers are SUNY Upstate and SU.
Manufacturing is faltering left and right, and that just reduces the economic output and spectrum of the community.
That's interesting, because those two industries drives a lot of the economy in the Research Triangle of NC and Austin TX, among other places. So, the Syracuse area is not alone in that. Keep in mind that SU is a private institution, which different from the state universities you have in those cities, which carry the load of higher education in those areas.
Also, the insurance industry is big in CNY, as the area has the 2nd biggest market for that industry east of the Mississippi River. There are also quite a few local tech based companies like Syracuse Research Corp., Sensis and Anaren/M.S. Kennedy, as well as Lockheed Martin. That's not counting the smaller companies in the area or the companies in nearby communities like Rome and Ithaca.
It's sad how badly upstate has fallen in jobs and yes it has shrunk significantly over the past couple of decades
many small towns and areas completely dying as mfg dries up some
not to mention mismanagement at places like xerox & kodak
albany is doing well in capatalizing on some emerging tech and there has been some nice organic growth and capitalization off the many resources
but it's still a very tough business climate
you can live in some texas urban areas for as much as you can live in many upstate places while making a much better wage .... economically i'd take TX 10 times out of 10 vs upstate
It's sad how badly upstate has fallen in jobs and yes it has shrunk significantly over the past couple of decades
many small towns and areas completely dying as mfg dries up some
not to mention mismanagement at places like xerox & kodak
albany is doing well in capatalizing on some emerging tech and there has been some nice organic growth and capitalization off the many resources
but it's still a very tough business climate
you can live in some texas urban areas for as much as you can live in many upstate places while making a much better wage .... economically i'd take TX 10 times out of 10 vs upstate
I know that Texas and the Plains states are doing well right now due to the energy industry, but I'm saying that all is not bad here in Upstate NY. there are counties that have grown in recent years and are still growing. Look at cities like Saratoga Springs, Plattsburgh and Watertown for a few examples.
Also, what people have to keep in mind is that in Texas, the cities are bigger in square mileage. For instance, there are a couple of posters that are moving to the Rochester area from Austin and Houston. What I told the poster from Austin to keep in mind is that Austin is 251 square miles, whereas Rochester is about 36 square miles. So, the 1st and 2nd ring Rochester suburbs are similar to the outer city neighborhoods in Austin. So, when you look at urban neighborhoods there, you could use those suburban neighborhoods in the Rochester area in the same way and considering that some are villages and are walkable, that can be a plus.
Skill set and education also play a big part as to where one can work too. So, it isn't as simple as people make it out to be.
That's interesting, because those two industries drives a lot of the economy in the Research Triangle of NC and Austin TX, among other places.
But those economies are much bigger bigger than syracuse or rochester. It's sad to say, but at its peak, syracuse had nearly 220 K+ in the city proper in the 1950s. Now it's under 150 K. It's been a slow drain out since then in terms of population and jobs.
I wish the situation was different ... but reality is it isn't
exactly.
Hence the premise of this thread. I truly feel that downstate's economic and tax policy has really hurt upstate as a destination for manufacturing and business. The numbers bear that out, unfortunately. It's a really pretty place to live, but businesses need a friendly environment to flourish.
Hence the premise of this thread. I truly feel that downstate's economic and tax policy has really hurt upstate as a destination for manufacturing and business. The numbers bear that out, unfortunately. It's a really pretty place to live, but businesses need a friendly environment to flourish.
That's why I feel consolidation in terms of a regional economic outlook and using the many colleges and universities for research and job creation. That's why I like the Creative Core website, which has a regional outlook with the inclusion of higher educational institutions that help the area in terms of research and job creation. Manufacturing isn't going to come back the way it was in Upstate 40 years ago. So, it is time to work together in a way that helps spur growth in Upstate NY. With some small, but steady growth in some Upstate counties and the transition being made in some Upstate cities in terms of the economy, I think the future can be bright.
That's why I feel consolidation in terms of a regional economic outlook and using the many colleges and universities for research and job creation. That's why I like the Creative Core website, which has a regional outlook with the inclusion of higher educational institutions that help the area in terms of research and job creation. Manufacturing isn't going to come back the way it was in Upstate 40 years ago. So, it is time to work together in a way that helps spur growth in Upstate NY. With some small, but steady growth in some Upstate counties and the transition being made in some Upstate cities in terms of the economy, I think the future can be bright.
you may think that, but reality doesn't agree unfortunately, and all the hope and positivity in the world won't change that as long as NYS continues to have a dysfunctional government in albany. Consolidating services won't eliminate some of the highest property, income, gasoline and sales taxes in the country
you may think that, but reality doesn't agree unfortunately, and all the hope and positivity in the world won't change that as long as NYS continues to have a dysfunctional government in albany. Consolidating services won't eliminate some of the highest property, income, gasoline and sales taxes in the country
Again, you can focus on the taxes, but we don't have some of the hidden costs/taxes that occur in other states either.
Also, relying on government to fix all of your problems doesn't work either. That's why I say that Upstate NY need to do what it can from within to help itself. Consolidation of services can help. Working as a regional economy can help. Featuring your greatest assets can help. Your ability to stay stable in many areas of areas in terms of housing and trasnitioning your economy can help. So, to put all of the issues of Upstate NY on the government can be offset somewhat if people in Upstate NY start thinking about what it does have and using that for growth. For instance, the cNY region of Upstate NY has one of the highest student populations per capita in the country. When you have that many institutions of higher learning and potential people that can stay, maybe it is tiem to look into some R&D development in your area and luckily, some people are finally starting to get it with the Center of Excellence and the Bio Tech center being built in Syracuse. It needs to continue within the region and in other regions in Upstate NY.
What I found interesting about people supposedly leaving is that how are some of these smaller counties like Clinton, Jefferson, Saratoga, Orange, Seneca, Ontario growing? How did Monroe County gain 20,000 people in the 90's and is pretty much steady through the first decade in the 2000's? How has the Capital Region had population growth? Yes, some parts of Upstate Ny has lost people due to a heavy reliance on one industry in manufacturing or even agriculture, but that is not the case for all of Upstate NY, in spite of all of the things mentioned that should deter people from moving there. That's why I say all is not bad and in some cases, the small, but steady growth might be what you want considering what has happened to areas that grew too fast.
I have lived in Upstate NY, Colorado, Washington and Oregon and each one of these states has many folks who would like to see their states cut in half. The universal problem is that the portions of each of those states with the largest population centers seem to get the majority of attention from the state governments. Oregon (where I live now) and NY (where we will be moving to to help and be with family) are similar in the 'two state' regard. Oregon has an Eastside vs. Westside divide with the Cascade Mountains acting like a blockade for state funds and invesment coming into the Eastern two-thirds of the state, much like downstate NY getting the spoils and Central and Western NY getting the occaisional attention of state government. I'm aware that state partitioning will most likely never happen, but I feel that we can all make our state governments more across the state representative by re-working the framework of government towards equal representation. BTW, I feel that our mis-guided, corporate driven trade policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, China, etc.) have adversily affected Upstate NY more so than any other region in the Unites States. Fundementally changing trade policies is as good of place as any to stop the bleeding of the middle class and enhance the economic vitality of Western and Central NY. Upstate NY's problems are often bigger than what the state can provide or propose, the root cause lies in the fact that the line between the Federal Government and Corporations has been dissolved to the point where they are one in the same.
Don't compare Eastern Oregon with Upstate New York. Upstate New York was very developed during the 19th century. Before 1965 there a lot farms and a lot of Industry. Eastern Oregon wasn't well developed only the western half is developed
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