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Old 10-21-2006, 03:08 PM
 
2,290 posts, read 2,473,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Els View Post
They are disgusting. Newburgh is horrible. It use to be beautiful. I've read the stories, seen the pictures. Now it's all hookers and gangs. Seriously. If you drive down any of the side streets on Broadway or Broadway itself after dark you're risking your safety. Newburgh has captured the dubious title of most dangerous city in the state of New York with a violent crime rate three times that of New York City [Times Herald-Record 10/23/03]. Take a look at this story.

http://archive.recordonline.com/news...orts/newburgh/

or this website:

(broken link)

Middletown and Port Jervis have increasing rates of violent and petty crimes though neither are as bad as Newburgh. Downtown Middletown used to be fairly safe, now it's not.

The cities of Orange County are an embarrassement to the county and the state at large. Corruption is rampant in all of them (Middletown's police were so corrupt they were taken over by the state, the mayor has ties to organized crime), and every few years we hear about some urban rennaissance project that ends with a developer out a lot of money, the state and HUD and taxpayers fleeced, and nothing changed.


Now it has hookers and drugs It's always had hookers and drugs since I can remember. Maybe Newburgh was nice in the 50's or 60's.
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
1,174 posts, read 5,904,156 times
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Quote:
Maybe Newburgh was nice in the 50's or 60's.
It was! Look at pictures prior to the late 60s or even drive around today if you happen to have an APV. Cobblestone streets, elegant brownstone houses, and the widest main street in America lined with fashionable shops as the whole city sweeps down the highland to one of the more beautiful views of the majestic Hudson. Newburgh was the "big city" for the farmers all over western Orange. It carried trade, farmers' goods, and passengers up and down the river plus a ferry to carry people and vehicles over the river. Nearly exactly a day's sail from New York itself. In 1953 it won the, "All American City" award. My great grandmother grew-up there as a little girl and Newburgh was an exciting place then. Lots of people, an active social scene, and the best fancy dry goods from New York city which, if you were lucky, you might find in your Christmas stocking later that year. Going into Newburgh itself was always a big day. The family would dress-up, wash the car, and go in. My g. g. grandfather would visit the grange and do business while my g. grandmother and her mother would shop the streets for things they couldn't make back at the farm. They would then meet for lunch at a nice restaurant and then take in a museum before going to the bank and then back home. July 4 they'd come in for fairs and have picnic dinner on the waterfront to watch the fireworks and listen to the band play.

The Newburgh-Beacon Bridge, the Interstate, and Johnson's, "Great Society" fiasco ruined all that. Travelers were diverted from Newburgh itself, indutry began to leave the northeast, and New York's liberal welfare system sealed Newburgh's fate. Out went the jobs, the merchants, and the middle and upper classes. Poor, unsuspecting blacks, brought in by the busload from the south, promised nonexistant jobs or welfare, were brought into mansions and townhouses butchered into tiny apartments and managed by slumlords. It happened very quickly. Within ten years beginning from the mid 60s, Newburgh became what it is now. The crime wasn't as bad as it is now, but the costs of living in Orange county were much less. If the poor had hope of getting out before, all hopes were crushed by the real estate boom, still going on, which began in the 90s. The cost of living in Orange county, property taxes, and the complete lack of living wage jobs in the county itself, means that getting a job which pays enough to get a nice place, is now a mere pipe dream. The political machine that runs Newburgh wants to keep it that way.

Middletown and Port Jervis have some hope, Port Jervis more than the other two, because they have trains going to and from the city. Newburgh doesn't even have a bus. Newburgh does have two major highways passing by it and an airport with a mile-long runway. It should do better than it does. Developers have made plans, tried to negotiate with government, even built a few things, but all of it invariably ends-up in bankruptcy. So while the rest of Orange county booms, Newburgh and Middletown and Port Jervis languish.

Last edited by Jason_Els; 10-21-2006 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 10-21-2006, 07:03 PM
 
2,290 posts, read 2,473,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_Els View Post
It was! Look at pictures prior to the late 60s or even drive around today if you happen to have an APV. Cobblestone streets, elegant brownstone houses, and the widest main street in America lined with fashionable shops as the whole city sweeps down the highland to one of the more beautiful views of the majestic Hudson. Newburgh was the "big city" for the farmers all over western Orange. It carried trade, farmers' goods, and passengers up and down the river plus a ferry to carry people and vehicles over the river. Nearly exactly a day's sail from New York itself. In 1953 it won the, "All American City" award. My great grandmother grew-up there as a little girl and Newburgh was an exciting place then. Lots of people, an active social scene, and the best fancy dry goods from New York city which, if you were lucky, you might find in your Christmas stocking later that year. Going into Newburgh itself was always a big day. The family would dress-up, wash the car, and go in. My g. g. grandfather would visit the grange and do business while my g. grandmother and her mother would shop the streets for things they couldn't make back at the farm. They would then meet for lunch at a nice restaurant and then take in a museum before going to the bank and then back home. July 4 they'd come in for fairs and have picnic dinner on the waterfront to watch the fireworks and listen to the band play.

The Newburgh-Beacon Bridge, the Interstate, and Johnson's, "Great Society" fiasco ruined all that. Travelers were diverted from Newburgh itself, indutry began to leave the northeast, and New York's liberal welfare system sealed Newburgh's fate. Out went the jobs, the merchants, and the middle and upper classes. Poor, unsuspecting blacks, brought in by the busload from the south, promised nonexistant jobs or welfare, were brought into mansions and townhouses butchered into tiny apartments and managed by slumlords. It happened very quickly. Within ten years beginning from the mid 60s, Newburgh became what it is now. The crime wasn't as bad as it is now, but the costs of living in Orange county were much less. If the poor had hope of getting out before, all hopes were crushed by the real estate boom, still going on, which began in the 90s. The cost of living in Orange county, property taxes, and the complete lack of living wage jobs in the county itself, means that getting a job which pays enough to get a nice place, is now a mere pipe dream. The political machine that runs Newburgh wants to keep it that way.

Middletown and Port Jervis have some hope, Port Jervis more than the other two, because they have trains going to and from the city. Newburgh doesn't even have a bus. Newburgh does have two major highways passing by it and an airport with a mile-long runway. It should do better than it does. Developers have made plans, tried to negotiate with government, even built a few things, but all of it invariably ends-up in bankruptcy. So while the rest of Orange county booms, Newburgh and Middletown and Port Jervis languish.


That was very interesting, thank you for that. I grew up in that area in the 70's during the riots. I was in that area from 1970-1988. I was born in the Bronx and moved upstate 1970. Did a year in Monticello too. Went to college in Sullivan county.
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Old 10-21-2006, 09:06 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 5,095,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1m1700 View Post
That was very interesting, thank you for that. I grew up in that area in the 70's during the riots. I was in that area from 1970-1988. I was born in the Bronx and moved upstate 1970. Did a year in Monticello too. Went to college in Sullivan county.
While Monticello has stayed about the same size it now has a dark underbelly as well. My cousin's husband was doing his criminal justice intern and the local cops said monticello had a high drug problem - and a lot of assaults. Now there is a casino there.

DD remembers Newburgh from the 50's..it used to be nice with awnings on the streets. I remember it from the 80's and it was then that it took an even sharper downturn IMO.
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:14 AM
 
2,290 posts, read 2,473,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnie View Post
While Monticello has stayed about the same size it now has a dark underbelly as well. My cousin's husband was doing his criminal justice intern and the local cops said monticello had a high drug problem - and a lot of assaults. Now there is a casino there.

DD remembers Newburgh from the 50's..it used to be nice with awnings on the streets. I remember it from the 80's and it was then that it took an even sharper downturn IMO.

Monticello was another horrible place, they had a bad drug problem when I was there too (70's)
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Glen Rock, NJ
667 posts, read 1,745,240 times
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fyI - we're heading into 2007 - so you can choose to live in 2003 and show me stats. I can also tell you that I grew up in Brooklyn and Manhattan -- most folks wouldn't even think of walking thru most of NYC even during the day. Things change. Remember, Newburgh isn't located in the middle of nowhere. It happens to be within a 60 mile radius of the most powerful city in the world.

Poughkeepsie and Middletown have exprienced more serious crimes in the last couple of years then Newburgh. I agree with the corruption and that it will take allot of money, patience and everything else to bring this city into the forefront of Orange County. But my point is, THE ENTIRE CITY is not plagued with these issues. You have blighted, **** poor areas that deserve only to be leveled.

But you also have many, many, many citizens that see it differently AND that live a completely safe and happy life. They see the potential. They see growth. These are people WITH CHOICES. And they still choose to live in Newburgh. So as so many talk about 'just the facts' - then lay the facts about it all - the pros and the cons. And then let people decide.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
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lfsr1544: Please present the source of your contention that,"Poughkeepsie and Middletown have exprienced more serious crimes in the last couple of years then Newburgh."

The following are the 2006 Elementary School testing results as published by the NYS Education Department.

What the Levels Mean

Level 1 = Students have serious academic difficulties.

Level 2 = Students need extra help to meet the standards.

Level 3 = Students meet the standards.

Level 4 = Students exceed the standards.

English Grade 8 testing levels:

Newburgh- Heritage: Level 1= 17.1%, Level 2= 59.9%
Newburgh- North: Level 1= 12.6%, Level 2= 58.7%
Newburgh- South: Level 1= 14.9%, Level 2= 59.2%

Math Grade 8 testing levels

Newburgh Heritage: Level 1= 27.5%, Level 2= 49.3%
Newburgh North: Level 1= 24.9%, Level 2= 45.4%
Newburgh South: Level 1= 25.6%, Level 2= 37.2%

Social Studies Grade 8 testing levels

Newburgh Heritage: Level 1= 10%, Level 2= 51%
Newburgh North: Level 1= 10%, Level 2= 46%
Newburgh South: Level 1= 8%, Level 2= 45%

Note: Newburgh has the worst primary school performance levels in all of Orange, Ulster, and Sulllivan counties. More than half the students of each school do not meet federal standards. The article cited includes all school districts in these counties. It's very useful for assessing school district performance.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...ory=SPECIAL01#

Also from The Times Herald-Record of October 23, 2006:

Quote:
The hundreds of other students at Newburgh's Heritage and South junior high schools, like their counterparts at Monticello Middle School, are all under the gun to do better.

Each school has at least one group of students who did poorly on the required state tests in math and English and have done so longer than other students in the mid-Hudson.

Their progress is mandated by the federal No Child Left Behind Act and the New York Board of Regents.

The poor test results have landed these three schools in restructuring, which means they have to revamp their education programs to boost results.
from http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...0315/-1/NEWS14

If the schools do not increase performance they will be forced to close.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
1,174 posts, read 5,904,156 times
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As to the crime situation, I did some checking. Per the New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services:

Crime Index

Middletown:

2004: 782
2005: 932

Poughkeepsie:

2004: 1561
2005: 1479

Newburgh:

2004: 1551
2005: 1509

Number of Violent Crimes Reported

Middletown:

2004: 107
2005: 122

Poughkeepsie:

2004: 357
2005: 371

Newburgh:

2004: 371
2005: 432

Number of Crimes Against Property Reported

Middletown:

2004: 675
2005: 810

Poughkeepsie:

2004: 1204
2005: 1108

Newburgh:

2004: 1180
2005: 1077

As the statistics show, Newburgh tops both other cities in crime except for 2005 Crimes Against Property, and the 2004 Crime Index where it was exceeded by Poughkeepsie. In both years, Newburgh's violent crime (is this the, "serious crime," you were referring to?) exceeded that of both cities.

Last edited by Jason_Els; 10-24-2006 at 05:32 PM..
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Old 10-24-2006, 10:52 PM
 
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Thank you for finding more recent info - the newest stats I could find at the FBI site were from 2004.

As I have said before, I am no country bumpkin and I have been just about all over NYC including some of the worst areas of the Bronx and some really crappy areas in Brooklyn and Harlem. I have had people attempt to kidnap me before, been shot at in the middle of an armed robbery, had a knife pulled on me a few times and have been almost carjacked twice..among other unfortunate near misses. If you think because my birthplace is not NYC means I am a moron when it comes to crime and street smarts then you are sadly mistaken because I am still standing here today.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:44 AM
 
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Question Orange County and the loss of a great beauty

Its a great loss; for a bunch of people, can't see that there is great hope for our cities if we just had some pride. I just opened a shop in down town middletown and well its hard to confront so many that cannot even open their minds about old places becoming new. We have plenty of people in our cities to generate enough business to be independent of the need for others to come to our city for bussiness. The limited thinking is why there are so many problems in these cities that once were teaming of people and business. It is a reflection of our society that we allowed this to happen. We don't believe in one another any more and shop where its cheaper and these huge stores only make it hard for the small time person to prosper. If there could be some balance and the societies we live in could remember what pride is??????We have no idea how to confront these young persons that begin to start a life of crime. They all have mothers and teachers, and pastors, and neighbors, and human contact that could show example of a person with pride. How many times have you seen a person throw trash on the ground?? A child sees that and knows that there is no pride in the grown person for his or her area; Why would the youth of our societies have pride in our area if we are embarased by our area?????? We (all of us) need to ask our youth, our seniors, ourselves to pick up for no reason other than its not pretty to have trash around. We need to be the people who can make a difference!!!!!! I am aware that crime is much further than trash on the street, but there are words to say to persons that can effectively change the world. Attacking one another is doing none of us any good.

Please be present while raising your childern, ask the police to stop treating all male persons as criminals until 25, Show the person with a sad face that they are not alone. Whatever you believe is true. I promise if you believe that there is no hope for our county well than there will be no hope. Teach hope and then hope will come. Change the way you look at things and things will change. One just has to believe.
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