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Old 09-07-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 4,547,453 times
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My wife and I have been playing with many different ideas when it comes to our impending move to the Northeast. I figure that we have to test everything logical, before making the decision.

These days it seems that we need to stick to either PA's northwest quadrant or NY's southern tier. The idea of moving to New York State is more than a little frightening, given its reputation for being a high-tax, big-government, liberal hell.

I know that many counties in the Southern Tier are strongly conservative, so there are apparently places where the consensus of opinion of the locals is likely to be in sync with ours. Given PA's reputation for being more conservative, one would ask... why are we even thinking about NY? Well, it seems that NY has a relative glut of properties that fit what we're looking for... whereas in PA they're few and far between. (Perhaps the fact that such properties are all over the place in NY for the price range I checked, and not so common in PA, attests to the fact that nobody really wants to live in the southern tier of NY when they're looking for what I'm looking for.....?)

Whatever the case may be, I want to know a few things about NY from the perspective of southern tier residents or those who've recently lived there.

1) How bad are the taxes, really? (It seems that NY taxes everything! Income tax, sales tax, property tax, etc!)

2) How hard is it to get a gun for personal protection? If you were to use it in the line of personal protection, like against a burglar who had a weapon, how likely is it that you would face prosecution of any kind for shooting the criminal?

3) How bad are the motor vehicle inspections? (If there's one thing I hate, it's meddlesome inspections. NJ sucked badly when I lived there, PA wasn't much better, and TX's inspections are actually reasonable... your car would have to be a SERIOUS piece of junk to fail a TX inspection.)

4) Are there meddlesome rules and regulations on farmers, such as when/where/if they can set up a farm stand and sell produce?

5) My wife and I are conservative Christians. If you disagree with that, there's little I'll be able to do to change your mind... so I'll just let God handle that in the end... meaning, don't give me any guff about being a conservative Christian. Just tell me how the southern tier (like Cattaraugus, Allegany, Steuben counties) would be for people like us. Are there a lot of people who WILL vote for Romney even though they're fairly certain that NY will go for Obama again? Are there a lot of people who go to church regularly? Are there a lot of people who hate big government and meddlesome regulations like we do? Etc.

6) How bad are the regulations on homeschoolers? (That is, if you know. I'd imagine that not many people pay attention to this.)

7) Given NY's rank as the highest-taxed state in the country, and the least free state in the country, what makes people keep wanting to move there as opposed to other very similar areas in neighboring states? Is it just the cheap property? Or is there more?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:16 PM
 
81,256 posts, read 109,133,216 times
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Just to be quick, no need to stereotype, as NY varies. Vehicle inspections are around 20 dollars and aren't too bad. You can own a gun in NY. Housing costs in Upstate NY overall are on par with much of the South, even with the higher tax RATES. Here's a great tax website: Taxes by State: New York to Wyoming

There are quite a few Christian schools in Upstate NY and even a few Christian colleges. If you want to homeschooling, it is no big deal and is done throughout the state.

Don't get caught up in the freedom hype, as not much is stopping people from living. Look into property tax exemptions and challenge assessments on your property.

There are politicians of both parties in the state at various levels.

I'm sure others will add more.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: SENIOR MEMBER
655 posts, read 2,253,266 times
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Default Texas, South Carolina, or Mississippi

I don't think that the Southern Tier of New York State would be a good place for you to consider relocating. The New England States probably wouldn't be to your liking either; some people think Vermont is a socialist mecca. New York State & New England are pretty-much a live and let live region without the States Governments or Religions dictating to citizens about "Personal-Private Matters/Decisions" concerning private individuals everyday lives.

I think the very best States for Conservative Beliefs Americans are: Texas, South Carolina, or Mississippi; maybe far away Idaho. So the good news is that you already are living in a State well-known to be a good solid conservative beliefs State; maybe you should search for an area IN Texas better suited for your everyday life. I'm not being judgemental, but I think after a period of time you would not like New York State's private personal choices attitude/atmosphere (freedom to marry who you want=Gay Rights/Gay Marriage, personal private abortion choice, acceptance of various decent nationalities=Chinese-Hispanic/Mexican-Muslim-AfroAmerican-Jewish, property taxes yes-I just got my tax bill and it is $600 dollars more than I expected it to be and I have a special deduction already taken off my tax bill=you definitely will not like the various taxes, a gun for protection (you don't need a gun for that) and if you shoot someone you will be arrested, gasoline for your vehicle-today's price when I bought it at a "cheap" station was $3.99 per gallon, I'm sure there will be many other things that you will not like about New York State.

So I do wonder, ? why are you considering relocating to New York State where the attitudes are more along the line of acceptance of all kinds of people & beliefs and have a live and let live attitude/atmosphere as well as high taxes of all kinds?? That doesn't seem logical. ? Why move to a State where you are going to be unhappy 24/7/365? I live in a Suburban neighborhood where there is diversity (Chinese, Atheist, Jewish, Buddist, Gay, Hispanic, Afro-American, & liberal beliefs individuals similar to Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or Ted Kennedy) and none of us have any problems getting along together; we even have neighborhood picnics together (there are 2 men of the Sikh Religion who sometimes attend our picnics and they are SO polite, mannered, and intelligent). I guess that the only worse States for your Conservative Beliefs would be California or Vermont; ? why are you considering moving to liberal NY State?? (Cheap land is not a good enough reason.)

I honestly think you would enjoy/like/appreciate some other more Conservative Beliefs State (versus New York State) for relocating your family; locations such as IN Texas or South Carolina=(sounds very good for you) or Mississippi or Idaho. Good luck to you and your family in finding a nice Conservative State where you can experience a happy life.

Last edited by grdnrman; 09-07-2012 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:16 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
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If you're coming in with that attitude, please stay away.

The least free State in the Country? Tell that to my gay brother.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 4,547,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
If you're coming in with that attitude, please stay away.

The least free State in the Country? Tell that to my gay brother.
Freedom, in my opinion, is the lack of government meddling in my affairs... not an environment which legislates permission to do things historically deemed immoral or dangerous. I wouldn't want to live somewhere where, for example, people could legally snort crack in public. At some point you have to put up a screen, to keep the bugs out... and when it's a relativistic mindset which determines when that screen goes up, who is to say who's right? "Let's legalize marijuana... it doesn't harm anyone." That's bull, but let's at least agree that it is one of the least harmful presently illegal drugs. It becomes legalized. What's next? Crack? "Oh no, we can't have THAT... it's dangerous!" "WHAT?! I've been using crack for 10 years and I haven't harmed anyone! Let's legalize it for medicinal purposes!" Right.

Too much freedom leads to slavery. After all, didn't we once see our cars as a means of freedom? Now what are they? Slavery to high gas prices, slavery to our commutes, slavery to traffic problems / road conditions / all kinds of hazards. Freedom? As I said, freedom is the government staying out of my pockets and out of my business as long as I'm not doing anything harmful to other people. I'm opposed to homosexuality but I won't vote in favor of people being banned from having sex with people of the same gender in the privacy of their own homes. That's not for government to punish - it's for God to punish. I don't want it brought out into public and paraded around as being "okay" or "equal", but in the privacy of your own home you can do whatever you want. I would favor legalization of all drugs if they were kept to the privacy of the user's own home... but we all know that never works because once the user gets high, he/she loses touch with reality and doesn't think clearly about things such as "I need to stay in my own home if I'm going to do this stuff".

Once things such as drugs and the like become public matters, they're risking harm to other people. You mentioned your brother who chooses to live a homosexual life. I say he should be allowed to do so, in the privacy of his own home. The majority of people don't want to see it. Let's face it - every time gay marriage has been placed on the ballot for the voters to decide upon, they have rejected it... every single time, in every single state where it's been put to a vote (including that bastion of liberality called California). Stands to reason that most people don't want it, and don't want to see it. However, I say he should have the freedom to do as he wishes in private on his own property or in his own home. When people have too much freedom, it encroaches upon other people's rights. For example, I hate smoking but I say a person should be free to smoke in his own home (as long as there are no other nonsmokers living there who don't want to inhale the smoke). What if the smoker is my neighbor and I can smell his smoke because he's smoking outside? Now his freedom has encroached upon my rights. We all have our bubbles, within which we should be free and outside of which we should not.

Restrictions on freedom that I oppose are things such as:
-Taxes (you get taxed regardless of where you are... even your home gets taxed... so there's no privacy that escapes taxation)
-Gun ownership and usage (if I own a gun for the protection of my property and family, I am harming nobody and I should be allowed to use it in the defense of such without fear of prosecution. I owe my life to a gun - my dad shot an armed intruder into our house when I was 4 - I never want to be in a situation where I wish I had a gun and I don't have a gun. Not owning a gun / not being allowed to own or use a gun only works if you are never a crime victim. Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns. Washington DC has a city-wide handgun ban. Why is it, then, that it ranks at or near the top of all US cities for murders where the murder weapon was a gun? The answer is because people who are criminally-minded enough to murder, or burglarize, or rape, or whatever are not going to be stopped by a piddly little law that says you can't own or use a gun. When was the last time you heard of someone being murdered or injured at a shooting range? Let's face it... at a shooting range, EVERYONE is carrying and using a loaded gun!! The reason why gun violence never happens at shooting ranges, despite everyone carrying a loaded gun, is because it's mutually assured destruction. If someone were to shoot someone else at a range, everyone else would blow his head off.)
-Homeschooling laws (For generations people taught their kids what they needed to know. I guarantee I could educate a kid, even one of average intelligence, such that by age 13 he/she had more useful "life knowledge and skills" than the average high school graduate. I don't want the government telling me what I must teach my child and demanding that I be qualified to their standards and that my kid pass their government-issued tests. I'm an educator. Politicians are not educators.)

The list goes on. You get the idea. I don't want to live in an area where people are all about "live and let live". That mentality looks good and sounds good on paper but it opens people up to being victimized. After all, sooner or later they'd have to step up... what if some Grand Dragon from the KKK moved in next door? Then would you be in an uproar? Let's face it, to get into an uproar, you have to know how to do it and be willing to abandon your "live and let live" mentality for the greater good of the area. 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Americans were more vigilant about people from these crazy Islamist factions who hate our guts... but we weren't prepared. I would rather live somewhere where people are watchful and prepared... not necessarily sure of what they have to watch for, but knowing that anything different from what they're used to in their quiet safe little community is a potential danger. I would rather live somewhere where outsiders are looked upon with much skepticism and scrutiny in the beginning until they've stood the test of time and proven themselves to be good, upstanding people who aren't looking to change the dynamic of the area.

So this is what I seek in a home area... some of it, anyway... basically trying to figure out if the southern tier of NY has areas that fit that bill. I know PA has plenty of them... maybe that's why they're more expensive... because they're more desirable...?
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Not Oneida
2,909 posts, read 4,071,193 times
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In Upstate NY you can own some basic forms of guns without a abnormal amount of paperwork. Owning a handgun is theoretically possible but requires the approval of a judge and the local police and a crap load of paperwork and some classes. You have to show a need for such a weapon and personal/home protection are NOT legal reasons and in fact I believe if you list them you will be denied on the spot.

The taxes are actually quite abit worse then anything you have heard about. The lists only list a small fraction of the taxes and fees. They say NYers pay about 50% of income in taxes. I bet if you really figgered it closer its nearly to 75%.

Freedom in NY depends on if you toe the liberal mark or not. The two party system in NY is basically the far left and the extreme left, you can call them whatever you want. When half your income goes to taxes you are not free no matter what you tell yourself.

Car inspections are not a huge deal if your awash in cash and have a super late model car. If its older the state will actually make you junk it or pour a ton of money in it even if its some non-important part. And its all about going green baby. You don't even need rear brakes in NY and you may be close to killing a school bus full of children because of bad brakes and thats legal but even god can't help you if a sensor is off alittle and .00000000000000001 droplets of "greenhouse" gases are released.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:10 PM
 
81,256 posts, read 109,133,216 times
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^ What? Where did the 50% of income in taxes figure come from? Same for needing a late model vehicle to pass inspection.

Also, Upstate NY is more moderate in terms of politics. There are reps from both parties and they range in terms of views.

I also don't know where or when crack was legalized anywhere. Where did that come from? I'm starting to wonder if the OP wants real information or is trying to start something. I find the KKK line interesting given their presence and that of similar groups in PA. I saw a business with a flyer featuring Hitler in Great Bend. I'm also not sure that it is about demand in PA or if it is about the energy companies one way or another.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:25 PM
 
87 posts, read 362,089 times
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Just for reference, the voter enrollment statistics for NYS active voters are

48.8% Democrat 25.2% Republican 3.8% Independent(The large majority of the rest did not mark one affiliation)

Now here is New York State EXCLUDING NYC

37.2% Democrat 33.5% Republican 4.7% Independent. Again, the rest mostly left the party selection blank.

So outside of New York City, New York state is pretty even actually politically speaking.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:32 PM
 
87 posts, read 362,089 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
Freedom, in my opinion, is the lack of government meddling in my affairs... not an environment which legislates permission to do things historically deemed immoral or dangerous. I wouldn't want to live somewhere where, for example, people could legally snort crack in public. At some point you have to put up a screen, to keep the bugs out... and when it's a relativistic mindset which determines when that screen goes up, who is to say who's right? "Let's legalize marijuana... it doesn't harm anyone." That's bull, but let's at least agree that it is one of the least harmful presently illegal drugs. It becomes legalized. What's next? Crack? "Oh no, we can't have THAT... it's dangerous!" "WHAT?! I've been using crack for 10 years and I haven't harmed anyone! Let's legalize it for medicinal purposes!" Right.

Too much freedom leads to slavery. After all, didn't we once see our cars as a means of freedom? Now what are they? Slavery to high gas prices, slavery to our commutes, slavery to traffic problems / road conditions / all kinds of hazards. Freedom? As I said, freedom is the government staying out of my pockets and out of my business as long as I'm not doing anything harmful to other people. I'm opposed to homosexuality but I won't vote in favor of people being banned from having sex with people of the same gender in the privacy of their own homes. That's not for government to punish - it's for God to punish. I don't want it brought out into public and paraded around as being "okay" or "equal", but in the privacy of your own home you can do whatever you want. I would favor legalization of all drugs if they were kept to the privacy of the user's own home... but we all know that never works because once the user gets high, he/she loses touch with reality and doesn't think clearly about things such as "I need to stay in my own home if I'm going to do this stuff".

Once things such as drugs and the like become public matters, they're risking harm to other people. You mentioned your brother who chooses to live a homosexual life. I say he should be allowed to do so, in the privacy of his own home. The majority of people don't want to see it. Let's face it - every time gay marriage has been placed on the ballot for the voters to decide upon, they have rejected it... every single time, in every single state where it's been put to a vote (including that bastion of liberality called California). Stands to reason that most people don't want it, and don't want to see it. However, I say he should have the freedom to do as he wishes in private on his own property or in his own home. When people have too much freedom, it encroaches upon other people's rights. For example, I hate smoking but I say a person should be free to smoke in his own home (as long as there are no other nonsmokers living there who don't want to inhale the smoke). What if the smoker is my neighbor and I can smell his smoke because he's smoking outside? Now his freedom has encroached upon my rights. We all have our bubbles, within which we should be free and outside of which we should not.

Restrictions on freedom that I oppose are things such as:
-Taxes (you get taxed regardless of where you are... even your home gets taxed... so there's no privacy that escapes taxation)
-Gun ownership and usage (if I own a gun for the protection of my property and family, I am harming nobody and I should be allowed to use it in the defense of such without fear of prosecution. I owe my life to a gun - my dad shot an armed intruder into our house when I was 4 - I never want to be in a situation where I wish I had a gun and I don't have a gun. Not owning a gun / not being allowed to own or use a gun only works if you are never a crime victim. Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns. Washington DC has a city-wide handgun ban. Why is it, then, that it ranks at or near the top of all US cities for murders where the murder weapon was a gun? The answer is because people who are criminally-minded enough to murder, or burglarize, or rape, or whatever are not going to be stopped by a piddly little law that says you can't own or use a gun. When was the last time you heard of someone being murdered or injured at a shooting range? Let's face it... at a shooting range, EVERYONE is carrying and using a loaded gun!! The reason why gun violence never happens at shooting ranges, despite everyone carrying a loaded gun, is because it's mutually assured destruction. If someone were to shoot someone else at a range, everyone else would blow his head off.)
-Homeschooling laws (For generations people taught their kids what they needed to know. I guarantee I could educate a kid, even one of average intelligence, such that by age 13 he/she had more useful "life knowledge and skills" than the average high school graduate. I don't want the government telling me what I must teach my child and demanding that I be qualified to their standards and that my kid pass their government-issued tests. I'm an educator. Politicians are not educators.)

The list goes on. You get the idea. I don't want to live in an area where people are all about "live and let live". That mentality looks good and sounds good on paper but it opens people up to being victimized. After all, sooner or later they'd have to step up... what if some Grand Dragon from the KKK moved in next door? Then would you be in an uproar? Let's face it, to get into an uproar, you have to know how to do it and be willing to abandon your "live and let live" mentality for the greater good of the area. 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Americans were more vigilant about people from these crazy Islamist factions who hate our guts... but we weren't prepared. I would rather live somewhere where people are watchful and prepared... not necessarily sure of what they have to watch for, but knowing that anything different from what they're used to in their quiet safe little community is a potential danger. I would rather live somewhere where outsiders are looked upon with much skepticism and scrutiny in the beginning until they've stood the test of time and proven themselves to be good, upstanding people who aren't looking to change the dynamic of the area.

So this is what I seek in a home area... some of it, anyway... basically trying to figure out if the southern tier of NY has areas that fit that bill. I know PA has plenty of them... maybe that's why they're more expensive... because they're more desirable...?
No offense, but that is one of the weirdest posts I've ever seen on here...way off the wall.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 4,547,453 times
Reputation: 3308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
^ What? Where did the 50% of income in taxes figure come from? Same for needing a late model vehicle to pass inspection.
Wouldn't surprise me. If you lose 20% to the feds and 10% between state income tax and property tax, you only need to cobble together another 20% between things like gas tax (over 50 cents per gallon between state and feds), sales tax, vehicle registration fees, and probably the largest one of all - the increase in price of just about everything to cover down on the taxes that the business / company has to pay to the state and the feds. 50% seems like a reasonable estimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I also don't know where or when crack was legalized anywhere. Where did that come from?
It came because someone got snarky with me and started talking about freedom. Lots of people think that freedom is the ability to do whatever you want to do without it being deemed illegal. Lots of these "freedom" people like to talk about legalization of gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, etc... ideas that, even two generations ago, would have been viewed as outrageous. Right now we all think that something such as legalization of crack is outrageous. How will we feel in another two generations? Is that freedom?

I was trying to make a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I'm starting to wonder if the OP wants real information or is trying to start something.
To settle your mind, go to my original post. Figure out if I was looking for information, or if I said anything about wanting to start a debate. (If you still can't figure it out, I'll make it easy for you. I was looking for information.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I find the KKK line interesting given their presence and that of similar groups in PA. I saw a business with a flyer featuring Hitler in Great Bend. I'm also not sure that it is about demand in PA or if it is about the energy companies one way or another.
I guarantee that KKK people are everywhere. But you must admit, if a KKK Grand Dragon moved in next door to you, you'd be more than a little perturbed. My point was that there are things that are enough to make even the "live and let live" people abandon that philosophy for what they think is the "greater good". I guarantee you that even the biggest liberal hippie "love everyone" person would draw the line at something severe like a KKK leader living next door... or at least, at a KKK leader who lives next door hosting KKK meetings at his house even if they're entirely peaceful and thus Constitutionally protected. I have never met a "live and let live" person who didn't draw the line somewhere. The reason why I don't like "live and let live" people is because it's hypocrisy... none of them really is entirely "live and let live", though they all believe they are. It's impossible to get along with people who are so unsure of who and what they are. I don't want to live in southern NY if lots of the people are "live and let live" types who don't think they would draw the line in the sand (even if that's just because they've never been faced with a scenario where they'd have to or want to, like a KKK leader hosting meetings next door).
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