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I'm 35, have a wife, and three children all under the age of 6. I'm about to move from Rochester, NY to Raleigh, NC due to the following:
1. We simply couldn't find any houses we liked in this area based on the school districts we desired and our price range. Specifically housing in our price range is older and almost always needing serious repairs or at least significant visual/decor updates to bring it up to our liking. Newer housing was simply too expensive for the SQ FT we desired. I work from home and houses with a viable 1st floor office or even a 2nd floor bonus room are extremely rare particularly in 4-bed houses. Seriously, we've looked at nearly 100 houses over the past 6+ months and never found anything worth offering on.
2. Directly related to our price range the extremely high property/school tax rate of 3%+ pushes us out of newer or larger housing in the area. While people claim Rochester has affordable housing that's true when considering JUT the house sale price. But once you add in $7K-$12K in taxes you can no longer afford a simple $250,000 house. It's pure insanity!!! You can negate the tax issue somewhat by choose different locals, namely NOT Monroe County but then you're far from the city proper.
3. Jobs. There's simply not as many jobs for me or my wife as there are elsewhere in the country. I work in software QA, my wife is a med tech. My wife's first quick search of jobs in Raleigh vs Rochester showed that Raleigh had 10x more jobs available and many more in research where Rochester is mostly hospital med tech which means nights, weekends, holidays, etc.
4. Lastly, the weather. I personally hate the winter but tolerate it. More than that is the never ending grayness of this area. It's May now and we still rarely have a long sunny patch in the weather. Instead is day after day of gray cloudiness with a day or two of sun interjected.
In contrast to my points above I found house after house in Raleigh that we liked visually, had the rooms and SQ FT we needed, and was in our overall price range. Since their tax rate is 1% or less of sale price we could instantly afford $90K+ more house with the same monthly payment. Houses almost always are newer, many have 1st floor offices/2nd floor bonus + 4 beds/3rd floor finished attics I could work from. Add the jobs, the incredibly beautiful weather, kids can play outside more than 5 months of the year, cheaper gas, cheaper insurance rates, less expensive utility rates due to smaller heating/cooling cycles, and the list of pros for Raleigh quickly grow to the point where Rochester is no longer even a consideration.
I also looked at other areas of the country and there's a ton of areas where you can find affordable housing, reasonable property/school taxes, better weather, and still find good-to-great schooling. Colorado was on my radar for a while. But they have long, cold winters due to altitude and I'm done with winter for a while. Other places have lower or no sales and state income tax to help negate their property/school tax rates.
It's true that Rochester has a lot to offer. The summers are beautiful. But they only last a very short time. The bulk of my extended family is in the general area. But the fact I would have to make significant sacrifices to stay here either via sacrificing my housing quality/amenities or by paying more to live (read: higher cost of living).
I plan on sending some similar letter to the governor's office as yet another example of the young people of NY voting with their feet, as Spitzer likes to say.
I wholeheartedly agree that upstate NY is one of the great splendors of the world. The Catskills, Finger Lakes, Adirondacks are breathtaking. But, let's get a dose of reality for a second.
I live downstate in Orange county New York. I work in Manhattan for a Wall Street Firm. I commute 2 hours each way to work every day. I've been assaulted once and been in several fist fights on the commuter train. I just purchased a dream home with 4000 sq ft on 2 acres for $750k . I've seen my Real Estate and School taxes rise from $8k to $19k per year. I've had to bring school supplies to my son's class as the teachers don't have the supplies they need. Gas is $3.10 per gallon for regular. I pay $315 per month for Heating oil and $250 per month for electric and will start paying up to $500 month for electric in the summer due to air conditioning. My children will not be able to afford to buy a house here. I just paid $4.50 one way to use the ferry from downtown Manhattan to Hoboken. I pay $267 per month for my rail ticket and another $300 per year for parking.
I'm too busy working two jobs to pay for all this to have any friends, go on vacation or even afford a vacation. I'm in debt up to my wazoo, I get up at 4:30 am and get home from work 6:30-7:00pm everyday. I haven't played golf in 8 months, everything I plant in my yard get's eaten by Deer.
I want to love New York, I really want to take in all it's splendor, but I'm just oo damn busy and broke to enjoy it. Wouldn't my bloom look better in a more affordable pot?
* Homeowners insurance is significantly (hundreds) cheaper in Raleigh VS Rochester. I'm insuring a house that is 2.5X more expensive in Raleigh for $150/yr less!
* Auto insurance is $120/yr cheaper in Raleigh VS Rochester
* Health insurance is about $400 per month (READ: PER MONTH!!!) cheaper in Raleigh VS Rochester, though there's a $250 annual per person hospital deductable in Raleigh VS a $50 copay in Rochester. But only one person in my household has gone to the hospital in the past 6 years.
The financial aspect of my upcoming move gets better and better each day.
Just wasting time 'til I can post my semester grades....
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
I'm 35, have a wife, and three children all under the age of 6. I'm about to move from Rochester, NY to Raleigh, NC due to the following:
1. We simply couldn't find any houses we liked in this area based on the school districts we desired and our price range. Specifically housing in our price range is older and almost always needing serious repairs or at least significant visual/decor updates to bring it up to our liking. Newer housing was simply too expensive for the SQ FT we desired. I work from home and houses with a viable 1st floor office or even a 2nd floor bonus room are extremely rare particularly in 4-bed houses. Seriously, we've looked at nearly 100 houses over the past 6+ months and never found anything worth offering on.
2. Directly related to our price range the extremely high property/school tax rate of 3%+ pushes us out of newer or larger housing in the area. While people claim Rochester has affordable housing that's true when considering JUT the house sale price. But once you add in $7K-$12K in taxes you can no longer afford a simple $250,000 house. It's pure insanity!!! You can negate the tax issue somewhat by choose different locals, namely NOT Monroe County but then you're far from the city proper.
3. Jobs. There's simply not as many jobs for me or my wife as there are elsewhere in the country. I work in software QA, my wife is a med tech. My wife's first quick search of jobs in Raleigh vs Rochester showed that Raleigh had 10x more jobs available and many more in research where Rochester is mostly hospital med tech which means nights, weekends, holidays, etc.
4. Lastly, the weather. I personally hate the winter but tolerate it. More than that is the never ending grayness of this area. It's May now and we still rarely have a long sunny patch in the weather. Instead is day after day of gray cloudiness with a day or two of sun interjected.
In contrast to my points above I found house after house in Raleigh that we liked visually, had the rooms and SQ FT we needed, and was in our overall price range. Since their tax rate is 1% or less of sale price we could instantly afford $90K+ more house with the same monthly payment. Houses almost always are newer, many have 1st floor offices/2nd floor bonus + 4 beds/3rd floor finished attics I could work from. Add the jobs, the incredibly beautiful weather, kids can play outside more than 5 months of the year, cheaper gas, cheaper insurance rates, less expensive utility rates due to smaller heating/cooling cycles, and the list of pros for Raleigh quickly grow to the point where Rochester is no longer even a consideration.
I also looked at other areas of the country and there's a ton of areas where you can find affordable housing, reasonable property/school taxes, better weather, and still find good-to-great schooling. Colorado was on my radar for a while. But they have long, cold winters due to altitude and I'm done with winter for a while. Other places have lower or no sales and state income tax to help negate their property/school tax rates.
It's true that Rochester has a lot to offer. The summers are beautiful. But they only last a very short time. The bulk of my extended family is in the general area. But the fact I would have to make significant sacrifices to stay here either via sacrificing my housing quality/amenities or by paying more to live (read: higher cost of living).
I plan on sending some similar letter to the governor's office as yet another example of the young people of NY voting with their feet, as Spitzer likes to say.
Just do all of us a favor when you get here - please bite your tongue when the urge to say: "Up North (or any variation), we had this, that, and the other (or any variation)". We do NOT want to convert you nor are we making a moral assessment of you and your lifestyle if, and when, we invite you to church - it's called being nice - and we will not get our undies in a wad if you decline. Occasionally, we give directions in an aroundabout way - don't tap your foot or sigh. Wear your favorite college colors proudly, but some people will get really upset if you refer to "Carolina blue" as "powder blue" (even though it is! LOL) Get involved in the school system. Vote. Try everything, even liver mush. Having a "come to Jesus meeting" or "a prayer meeting" is a form of enlightenment used on unruly children. Afterwards, a marked improvement in attitude and behavior is usually seen - kind of like an "attitude adjustment". There's a lot of other stuff, but if you remember to be nice and cut your grass and keep all living room furniture off the front porch and lawn, you'll be fine. Oh, and the thing that willget you all the time: "y'all" is never single - it's for more than one. If it is used when talking to a person, it means your family. "All y'all" means you and everyone in your family. Y'all be sweet.
For us it's simple why we left Long Island, while in the 80's we could afford a house, in a crappy neighborhood and that was only barely, the taxes would have killed us. This was around the time of the Tax Shock of the late 80's. We also didn't want to rent someones converted garage or live with my parents. Long commutes over a short difference got old after the first decade.
While I miss certain things about Long Island I still remember what an executive I was driving to the airport told me when I said how much I loved the beaches of LI, he said, "That's nice, but you can't eat beach."
So every time I think about something I miss on LI I think about how much better my family is living away from it.
I think about this type of stuff all the time.. and its like, I kind of enjoy my aimless life in Buffalo. I dont have to worry about anything. Lots of people move away for big money to rapidly growing cities ... without realizing that everyone is moving there for the same thing. So they get stuck making thier big bucks , but thier living in endless anonymous sprawl cause thats what everyone who goes there is doing. And since lots of people are making the same type of money they are , everything is more expensive. Same **** , different city.
Unless you really wanna go places do things, thats one thing , but I think its safe to say a large percentage of the people evacuating the rust belt are just stupidly chasing dollars.
I mean, even me, If I ever leave WNY... there is only precious few places in the US I would even consider living in. NYC + Boston in the east. the SF bay area, or the Pacific NW Portland or Seattle. And In all those places Im talking about city -- not the dumb suburban tract housing you can find anywhere. If thats what you want then theres really no reason to prefer anyplace over another (other than weather) cause its all exactly the same.
Suburban Buffalo = Suburban Phoenix = Suburban Charlotte = Suburban anywhere. Zero difference. Other than maybe the Quiznos and Subway shops are at opposite ends of the strip mall. NOT IMPRESSED.
I think about this type of stuff all the time.. and its like, I kind of enjoy my aimless life in Buffalo. I dont have to worry about anything. Lots of people move away for big money to rapidly growing cities ... without realizing that everyone is moving there for the same thing. So they get stuck making thier big bucks , but thier living in endless anonymous sprawl cause thats what everyone who goes there is doing. And since lots of people are making the same type of money they are , everything is more expensive. Same **** , different city.
Unless you really wanna go places do things, thats one thing , but I think its safe to say a large percentage of the people evacuating the rust belt are just stupidly chasing dollars.
I mean, even me, If I ever leave WNY... there is only precious few places in the US I would even consider living in. NYC + Boston in the east. the SF bay area, or the Pacific NW Portland or Seattle. And In all those places Im talking about city -- not the dumb suburban tract housing you can find anywhere. If thats what you want then theres really no reason to prefer anyplace over another (other than weather) cause its all exactly the same.
Suburban Buffalo = Suburban Phoenix = Suburban Charlotte = Suburban anywhere. Zero difference. Other than maybe the Quiznos and Subway shops are at opposite ends of the strip mall. NOT IMPRESSED.
You may call it chasing dollars but I call it chasing opportunities. The way I see it, it's similar to what my great great grandparents did when they immigrated to this country.
I moved to Raleigh NC 10 years ago. Three days after receiving my degree, I was headed south. Would I have liked to stay.....sure. Do I miss certain things about WNY....sure. But throughout my childhood, I struggled watching my parents barely get by. My father just turned 62 and is employed as a janitor / maintenance worker. With little life savings, he was informed that his job would be eliminated at the end of this year. Sound familiar to anyone out there? He refuses to leave because he is holding on to the WNY of his youth. The WNY where his father and uncles made comfortable livings working in the steel industry. Everyone did well as long as they worked hard.
There are elements of urban sprawl where I live but surprisingly there is still a strong element of community. We live in a planned development much like you see around the suburbs of Buffalo. To be honest, there isn't much of a difference between where live now and where I grew up.
Back to chasing opportunities. I've changed jobs twice since I've been here. Although money did play a part (doesn't it usually), my primary reason for leaving both times was to align myself with personal and professional goals. The great thing about being here is that you don't feel chained to your employer. I had a college internship in Buffalo and paid a visit to my old boss last year. Aside from those who retired, almost nobody had left. Most where still complaining, as they where 10 years ago, about how bad things where around the office. I felt like asking why they still stayed but It would be like talikng to my father. It's like someone who suffers from spousal abuse. After a while, that person doesn't see any way out.
If you live in WNY and are happy, great. If I could earn a living, I'd be right there with you. For everyone else, why are you still there?
I'm 35, have a wife, and three children all under the age of 6. I'm about to move from Rochester, NY to Raleigh, NC due to the following:
1. We simply couldn't find any houses we liked in this area based on the school districts we desired and our price range. Specifically housing in our price range is older and almost always needing serious repairs or at least significant visual/decor updates to bring it up to our liking. Newer housing was simply too expensive for the SQ FT we desired. I work from home and houses with a viable 1st floor office or even a 2nd floor bonus room are extremely rare particularly in 4-bed houses. Seriously, we've looked at nearly 100 houses over the past 6+ months and never found anything worth offering on.
2. Directly related to our price range the extremely high property/school tax rate of 3%+ pushes us out of newer or larger housing in the area. While people claim Rochester has affordable housing that's true when considering JUT the house sale price. But once you add in $7K-$12K in taxes you can no longer afford a simple $250,000 house. It's pure insanity!!! You can negate the tax issue somewhat by choose different locals, namely NOT Monroe County but then you're far from the city proper.
3. Jobs. There's simply not as many jobs for me or my wife as there are elsewhere in the country. I work in software QA, my wife is a med tech. My wife's first quick search of jobs in Raleigh vs Rochester showed that Raleigh had 10x more jobs available and many more in research where Rochester is mostly hospital med tech which means nights, weekends, holidays, etc.
4. Lastly, the weather. I personally hate the winter but tolerate it. More than that is the never ending grayness of this area. It's May now and we still rarely have a long sunny patch in the weather. Instead is day after day of gray cloudiness with a day or two of sun interjected.
In contrast to my points above I found house after house in Raleigh that we liked visually, had the rooms and SQ FT we needed, and was in our overall price range. Since their tax rate is 1% or less of sale price we could instantly afford $90K+ more house with the same monthly payment. Houses almost always are newer, many have 1st floor offices/2nd floor bonus + 4 beds/3rd floor finished attics I could work from. Add the jobs, the incredibly beautiful weather, kids can play outside more than 5 months of the year, cheaper gas, cheaper insurance rates, less expensive utility rates due to smaller heating/cooling cycles, and the list of pros for Raleigh quickly grow to the point where Rochester is no longer even a consideration.
I also looked at other areas of the country and there's a ton of areas where you can find affordable housing, reasonable property/school taxes, better weather, and still find good-to-great schooling. Colorado was on my radar for a while. But they have long, cold winters due to altitude and I'm done with winter for a while. Other places have lower or no sales and state income tax to help negate their property/school tax rates.
It's true that Rochester has a lot to offer. The summers are beautiful. But they only last a very short time. The bulk of my extended family is in the general area. But the fact I would have to make significant sacrifices to stay here either via sacrificing my housing quality/amenities or by paying more to live (read: higher cost of living).
I plan on sending some similar letter to the governor's office as yet another example of the young people of NY voting with their feet, as Spitzer likes to say.
Raleigh is the most overrated area in the country...i've lived here 12 years and can't wait to get back to Rochester. I've been in Raleigh (north and south areas of the city), Cary, and Apex. Everything around here ie exactly the same and no charecter....its getting much more expensive too. In the long run Rochester, despite property taxes, is still more affordable than Raleigh...and he schools are WAY better. WCPSS (wake county public school system) gets more and more ridiculous every year. If you think Greece Central schools has issues, wait till you come down here....you'll be wishing for Greece's budgeting and administrative issues.
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Just wasting time 'til I can post my semester grades....
