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Ha Ha, I just spent Thursday during a car trip to Pittsford pointing out to my 14 year old son the lack of kids outside on the first day of summer...we actually counted basketball hoops void of any kids (he's a basketball nuttttttttt so ours has a group of boys under it everyday weather permitting) and I explained to him that kids today have lost something to the video games and Ipods and computers and cell phones and it's mainly personal interaction......all the way through H. Falls to Mendon to Pittsfrd, massive homes with manicured lawns and no one in them!!!!!!!! But then in the actual village of Pittsford, there was a gang of teens gathered in the vicinity of a Starbucks....amazing!!!!
You state you're in VA....although family will probably keep me here in NY, Roanoke stole my heart 14 years ago and I have pined for it ever since. We will re-evaluate our direction in 4 years when our youngest graduates from hs....what's your opinion of that area?
We need to go in together on a Lottery ticket--I was just in Roanoke yesterday, taking the kids (the little ones) to the Mill Mtn. zoo. We were there a few weeks before, too, at Elmwood Park (did I get that right?) for a crafts festival. The zoo, by the way, is nicer than ever. A cool swirling breeze atop the mountain there helped. They did a great job shaping the zoo around the big trees and nicely mixed shrubs and flowers, and it's on a perfect scale for little kids. I don't know what kind of elms they have ringing the park, but they seemed remarkably healthy, too. (Have you heard the good news about the progress scientists have made getting the American elm restarted?)
But I've got mixed feelings about Roanoke. Partly because I just don't much like SW Virginia generally, compared to the Piedmont part of the state, for reasons I won't repeat here (people are loading their guns already, I've whined about it so much). Partly because the 581 "by-pass" doesn't by-pass the city nearly enough. Instead, to me, it really slashes right through far too much of the city. If you calculate how many streets and homes and neighborhoods they had to destroy to put this highway so much through the city itself, it's painful. Beyond the whole aesthetic factor, they sacrificed a good 20% of the actual city itself to this thing. It's one of the worst-conceived and placed highways I've ever seen in any American city. If they'd put in the highway on the far side of the railroad tracks, just a half-mile or so further out toward the mountain, so much more of the city would be intact.
About the city itself, I really like its several stately neighborhoods--LOTS of beautiful homes and quiet residential streets, most of them well-kept. The fact that it boomed when they were building such handsome homes really gives it an impressive housing stock. Good to see. There's a growing sense of historic preservation, too. They restored the old 1940s neon signs (the coffee one and the cab company one). Some nice restaurants. Great transportation museum (that '57 DeSoto in there is a thing of beauty). Great science museum, and they're improving it. Nice farmers' market.
But my biggest problem with Roanoke is that, like so many American cities, it's not used and appreciated enough. Even with a growing sense of respect for it, and improvements to some key things it has, it's too much of a ghost town, even during a business day. And this by itself makes you worry about being targeted by crime, so you get a real catch-22 going: downtown is too empty, so if I go there, I'm an easy target, so I'll add to the emptiness problem by not going there unless I have to. The damn malls along 581 just outside the city have really sucked the commercial and even cultural life out of the city proper. People drive to restaurants in the malls for dinner, when far better restaurants, and a stroll around a nice park afterward, lie unused in the city. And it's a shame, because despite the huge gouge of 581, the city's bones are very intact. Too often, though, as we saw driving back into the city from the zoo the other day, in a lovely park that should have lots of office workers enjoying lunch in the sunshine, and on streets where there should be people strolling around enjoying the beautiful architecture, there are just winos and hookers. And while the stately neighborhoods are holding on, a lot of the city that declined into stuffing rental units into previously handsome old homes remains that way. I haven't looked up the rental/homeowner split, but it looks like half the city is still fairly run-down rental housing, with a lot of that "Who do I blame my problems on today?" worst-of-Appalachian thinking going on in them. I guess it's no wonder, then, that most middle class families settling into the area much prefer Salem to Roanoke--again, for the safety/ghost-town factor. Or they settle into one of the very isolated suburban developments stuck in a little mountain pocket, and use the malls for all their shopping and "culture."
I sure hope the city revives further, and we've got a very good governor (as politicians go) who is trying to steer good jobs to this corner of the state. But the city does have its issues. So I'm curious why it appeals to you so much. I myself would MUCH rather be in your area, with all the choices and varieties of where and how to live around. I don't see those same choices, and the vibrancy that comes with them, in and around Roanoke. But maybe I'm missing something....
But I've got mixed feelings about Roanoke. Partly because I just don't much like SW Virginia generally, compared to the Piedmont part of the state, for reasons I won't repeat here (people are loading their guns already, I've whined about it so much). Partly because the 581 "by-pass" doesn't by-pass the city nearly enough. Instead, to me, it really slashes right through far too much of the city. If you calculate how many streets and homes and neighborhoods they had to destroy to put this highway so much through the city itself, it's painful. Beyond the whole aesthetic factor, they sacrificed a good 20% of the actual city itself to this thing. It's one of the worst-conceived and placed highways I've ever seen in any American city.
This is the type of thing I have the biggest problem with the 'New South' or whatever the hottest area at the moment is. I have no clue how they managed to miss that THIS is exactly what killed neighborhoods all over the NE. Just now in Buffalo, people who actually know what they are talking about, are now finally at least lightly contemplating the possible benefits of ripping out all these expressways and raised highways that have ruined the city. They CREATE slums and ghettos everywhere you put them. The east side of Buffalo is the classic example.. thats a very large neighborhood that has been completely cut off and totally isolated from any and all types of traffic cause of our thruway and our expressway system. Unless you live there, there is no reason to ever go there. You can hop on the 33 and blast right over the ghetto at 70+mph until you are safely back in the white suburbia and strip development of Cheektowaga/Depew/Lancaster. And then people wonder why it is like it is, and why theres no money and businesses over there (In the East Side). Its a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Edit: Hate to say it... but this type of stuff.. literally, can be called race roads. Like they have in Palestine - its so white people dont ever have to interact with darker skinned people or drive through thier neighborhoods. Its an ugly throwback to a period of time we should be long past by now.
This is the type of thing I have the biggest problem with the 'New South' or whatever the hottest area at the moment is. I have no clue how they managed to miss that THIS is exactly what killed neighborhoods all over the NE. Just now in Buffalo, people who actually know what they are talking about, are now finally at least lightly contemplating the possible benefits of ripping out all these expressways and raised highways that have ruined the city. They CREATE slums and ghettos everywhere you put them. The east side of Buffalo is the classic example.. thats a very large neighborhood that has been completely cut off and totally isolated from any and all types of traffic cause of our thruway and our expressway system. Unless you live there, there is no reason to ever go there. You can hop on the 33 and blast right over the ghetto at 70+mph until you are safely back in the white suburbia and strip development of Cheektowaga/Depew/Lancaster. And then people wonder why it is like it is, and why theres no money and businesses over there (In the East Side). Its a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Edit: Hate to say it... but this type of stuff.. literally, can be called race roads. Like they have in Palestine - its so white people dont ever have to interact with darker skinned people or drive through thier neighborhoods. Its an ugly throwback to a period of time we should be long past by now.
Ghetto's and slums are Not created by the ruling government. Show me someone who wakes up, has coffee, and says "I've got it!! Lets build a ghetto!!"... it just doesn't happen. Its like Joe American deciding on his drive in to work to do a bad job today. Not likely. All of these so called ghetto's and slums are created from within... its up to the people in neighborhoods to unite and build... to get rid of the drug dealers, wino's, hookers, ... to maintain their yards and houses and streets and the way of life that they wish to enjoy. Unemployment is a moot point, if anybody has the gumption to get out there and work like a real man or a real woman they can... no excuses... its all there for the taking and being lazy is not an option. You reap what you sow no matter if your black, white, green, or purple. And, for anyone who spends a lot of money on drugs, booze, etc... and still wants to complain about their quality of life I have no respect for whatsoever... take Lancaster for example, you can look up the stats for virtually everything right here on this site... well below the US average for crime, rape, robberies, etc. ... why? Because the folks that live there won't put up with the drugs and the crime and everything that goes with it. Thats why its stayed the way it has. Its easy to boo hoo and woe is me but until the people in area's that they say are deprived get up off of their behinds and actually do something about it nothing will change... this could be the same post ten years from now, because, they probably won't.
Ghetto's and slums are Not created by the ruling government. Show me someone who wakes up, has coffee, and says "I've got it!! Lets build a ghetto!!"... it just doesn't happen. Its like Joe American deciding on his drive in to work to do a bad job today. Not likely. All of these so called ghetto's and slums are created from within... its up to the people in neighborhoods to unite and build... to get rid of the drug dealers, wino's, hookers, ... to maintain their yards and houses and streets and the way of life that they wish to enjoy. Unemployment is a moot point, if anybody has the gumption to get out there and work like a real man or a real woman they can... no excuses... its all there for the taking and being lazy is not an option. You reap what you sow no matter if your black, white, green, or purple. And, for anyone who spends a lot of money on drugs, booze, etc... and still wants to complain about their quality of life I have no respect for whatsoever... take Lancaster for example, you can look up the stats for virtually everything right here on this site... well below the US average for crime, rape, robberies, etc. ... why? Because the folks that live there won't put up with the drugs and the crime and everything that goes with it. Thats why its stayed the way it has. Its easy to boo hoo and woe is me but until the people in area's that they say are deprived get up off of their behinds and actually do something about it nothing will change... this could be the same post ten years from now, because, they probably won't.
How did you manage to COMPLETELY miss the entire point of my post?? Seriously, thats ridiculous, I was pretty blunt. I didn't say any of the things that you 'responded' to.
Let me reiterate... when you are building a highway system... it should have a purpose, however, if it cuts off a neighborhood from traffic -- that neighborhood becomes a slum. Period. You shouldn't even attempt to debate this with me, because its a dumb throwback to the 50's that is no longer functioning, and has been proven a complete FAILURE - and has been shown as such again and again and again in the history of urban planning. In every city
So the question at this point is: Do you want to keep digging, or do you want climb out of the hole ?
As I posted above and to reply to your post: Yep, climb out of the "hole"... not a good way to put it seeing that we are all people... but ok then, hole... interstates, causeways, turnpikes, etc. aren't put there from only one persons whims... its the voters and taxpayers who decide... and, if you happen to lose that vote why still have a slum? No matter what city or area you live in you still have a say, on a vote or by making the neighborhood better by example. Build and run a restaraunt that serves good food and get a reputation for it be it seafood, soulfood, mexican, ... whatever... make it safe to get from the car to the front door ... and back. A highway above was voted on by a majority and, at worst, should be a bump in the road, do you think that all of the people in the area cast their vote?. Slums should not be slums anymore because of development, they shouldn't be slums anymore because of the good citizens who live there... and the actions they are taking... as a community, to make it better and right. Plus, no one says that they have to live there either, there are too many choices.
My husband and I just moved to Lakeland, Fl last June from a small town near Syracuse, NY. We moved here because I have "Crest Sydrome" and am very sensitive to cold. We are in late 40s early 50s, left a great job to come here only to find minimum wage retail jobs.
We started out in suburbs of Orlando, but did not really like the hustle and bustle. We thought Lakeland looked like a nice place to settle. We have had some trouble dealing with the "Yankee" thing, but hey I had nothing to do with the civil war. They really need to get over it already.
I have read alot of posts and feel pretty much like most of the ones that have moved back (unfortunately I can never go back to the cold) so we have to make a home here.
We, like most ny'ers really think the food here is lacking. Nothing but your typical fast food chains. And lets not even talk about the grocery stores...We would die for a Wegman's or Price Chopper!!!!!
Anyway my question to anyone who is interested in answering is where do most upstaters move to in florida? My husband and I are interested in starting up a "Fish Fry" as we have found there is nothing around here like that. Does anyone think this would be a good business decision? Lakeland seems to have a lot of transients from Michigan and of course a lot of locals.
This is the type of thing I have the biggest problem with the 'New South' or whatever the hottest area at the moment is. I have no clue how they managed to miss that THIS is exactly what killed neighborhoods all over the NE. Just now in Buffalo, people who actually know what they are talking about, are now finally at least lightly contemplating the possible benefits of ripping out all these expressways and raised highways that have ruined the city.
ITA with you. Highways damage cities... Being an Albany native, I can say that 787 is awful for the city (great for the suburbs, but awful for the city.) It cuts off the entire Hudson waterfront, which would otherwise be developed or park space. Rochester's inner loop is also horrible. 787 and the inner loop make it easy for people to go through the city as fast as possible. Cities need to encourage people who work there to also LIVE there. 787 and the inner loop help the suburbs, not the cities.
And I agree that the person who responded to your post really probably didn't even bother to read what you wrote.
This is the type of thing I have the biggest problem with the 'New South' or whatever the hottest area at the moment is. I have no clue how they managed to miss that THIS is exactly what killed neighborhoods all over the NE. Just now in Buffalo, people who actually know what they are talking about, are now finally at least lightly contemplating the possible benefits of ripping out all these expressways and raised highways that have ruined the city. They CREATE slums and ghettos everywhere you put them. The east side of Buffalo is the classic example.. thats a very large neighborhood that has been completely cut off and totally isolated from any and all types of traffic cause of our thruway and our expressway system. Unless you live there, there is no reason to ever go there. You can hop on the 33 and blast right over the ghetto at 70+mph until you are safely back in the white suburbia and strip development of Cheektowaga/Depew/Lancaster. And then people wonder why it is like it is, and why theres no money and businesses over there (In the East Side). Its a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Edit: Hate to say it... but this type of stuff.. literally, can be called race roads. Like they have in Palestine - its so white people dont ever have to interact with darker skinned people or drive through thier neighborhoods. Its an ugly throwback to a period of time we should be long past by now.
According to my husband ( who was a kid when they built the 33), the 33 was put in in order to divide not solely race but specifically the 2 political parties. In doing so, the people inside the ring also got the ghetto and many moved out.... Buffalo is still suffering from the stupidity of politics. The more you push, the more people move away. Look at the idiocy that went on in the Common Council last week.
Someone put together an excellent video with images of upstate N.Y.; set to some pretty good music too. -Sometimes I listen to it...and think back to my childhood days in N.Y.
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where do upstate ny'ers move to in florida
