Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are you kidding?!? Run-down looking isn't depressing? it's alright for old building to be falling apart and run down? There's ways to maintain old buildings while still keeping their historic and quaint ambiance. The Buckingham Palace and Palace of Versallies are old but they're not boarded-up, run-down, and depressing looking. Look at older sections of Boston, St. Augustine, and Williamsburg, VA - beautiful, quaint, charming, well-maintained and just as old, if not or older than the cities in Upstate NY. I can't say the same for the older neighborhoods in Buffalo and Albany.
If you actually spend time in "newer" cities you'll find some interesting history, e.g. I find Encanto-Palmcroft Historic District in Phoenix quite charming.
I never said Upstate NY is bad. While I do prefer Colorado, I like sections of Upstate NY believe it or not. The Finger Lakes and Ithaca are beautiful. My problem is that Upstate NY is not at it's potential. Older architecture in the cities could be maintained better, many of cities have high crime in relation to its size, and for a city it's size Buffalo could diversify it's economy more.
NO, I don't find run down buildings depressing. I find them interesting. I like to study their architecture and history. I have several frieds and family who do the same.
Who said it was ok for an old building to be falling down? I didn't say that. Just because something is run down doesn't mean it's falling down. Yes, buildings fall down occasionally. This happens with new and old buildings from time to time for various reasons.
You can't compare Buckingham Palace to the small towns of NY. First off, the British people pay millions of dollars a year to maintain that palace. Hardly the same thing as building in Syracuse.
Hate to burst your bubble, but Boston and Williamsburg have PLENTY of run down buildings. Those cities aren't all grand. There are areas that are beautifully maintained and areas that are ghetto. Every city has that.
I have spent a lot of time in newer cities and found the architecture to be boring. That's what happens when things are burned down during a war. Sure they have history, but not a lot to show for it. And I have ZERO interest in Southwest architecture. It's not my thing. And neither is Phoenix. You can keep that heat!
Instead of ragging on what the problem is with each city in Upstate, maybe work with where you live and come up with ideas on how to improve your town. Complaining doesn't fix anything. Actions fix it. The economic state of Upstate did NOT happen overnight and won't be corrected in a few years. It takes people getting together and working TOGETHER to correct it.
I came across these pics of Buffalo/Elmwood on another site, but they are worth looking at. They are only a few years old, and I am betting people who put Buffalo down or paint a horrible picture of it would be surprised, especially people who have never been here and jump to conclusions. Now, I know the city has a lot of problems, but it has some really good spots and hidden gems as well.
You can't compare Buckingham Palace to the small towns of NY. First off, the British people pay millions of dollars a year to maintain that palace. Hardly the same thing as building in Syracuse.
Hate to burst your bubble, but Boston and Williamsburg have PLENTY of run down buildings. Those cities aren't all grand. There are areas that are beautifully maintained and areas that are ghetto. Every city has that.
Obviously every city has it's rough areas. My point is that the number of dingy looking areas in Upstate NY cities outweigh the number of nice, quaint, well-kept areas, unlike Boston and Williamsburg. Boston, Williamsburg, St. Augustine, Annapolis probably have better funded historic and preservation societies unlike Syracuse or Albany. Maybe Upstate NY cities should invest more money in historic preservation of beautiful old houses and buildings, it would create more jobs. But I guess not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
I have spent a lot of time in newer cities and found the architecture to be boring. That's what happens when things are burned down during a war. Sure they have history, but not a lot to show for it. And I have ZERO interest in Southwest architecture. It's not my thing. And neither is Phoenix. You can keep that heat!
Quite a rude statement IMO. Just because a city is newer means that the architecture is boring to you and their history less interesting than Upstate NY? And the Southwest architecture, even a lot of the newer architecture, is actually based off of the Spanish-Mediterranean architecture, just like how the Northeast architecture is based off of English and Dutch architecture. So I asumme you find that type of Spanish-Mediterranean type architecture unattractive and boring, alright. Then again everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I never said Upstate NY buildings were boring, unattractive, or had no character. Many of them are just run-down. Renovation would fix that problem. But thanks for insulting the southwest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
Instead of ragging on what the problem is with each city in Upstate, maybe work with where you live and come up with ideas on how to improve your town. Complaining doesn't fix anything. Actions fix it. The economic state of Upstate did NOT happen overnight and won't be corrected in a few years. It takes people getting together and working TOGETHER to correct it.
I've had a friend that came to Buffalo to help start-up some Yahoo offices. Didn't work out because of New York's hostile economic politics and he ended up moving. My other friend's brother had to leave Albany for California (believe it or not) because he didn't have luck starting his business here. Another good friend of mine worked for the state in economic politics and wasn't thrilled. And I used to work for the NYS government until I went into private sector, so I'm very familiar with the politics. So people that I know and myself have actually tried to do something. Obviously NY economic situation didn't happen overnight and it's not going to fix itself overnight, but NY government hasn't taken any action or implement any politics to change it nor does it look like it will anytime soon. Other rust-belt cities like Pittsburgh have really revitalized compared to Buffalo. Everytime someone suggests an idea to boost the economy (minus fracking) the idea gets shut down because the government and people seem to be resistant to change for the better. So most people who want to help get frustrated and end up moving.
I understand that you didn't like living in the south, which is fine and I'm glad you're happy to move back to Upstate NY. But please don't go around saying that all the newer developed regions and cities are boring, have no character, offering nothing good. You really think all of the sunbelt are the same? Other than warmer weather, more newer development, and being more sprawly, North Carolina and South Carolina have nothing in common with Phoenix or SoCal. Making ridiculous statements that indicate Denver isn't a good place to live because of wildfires. The only real reason why I think Colorado is presently superior to Upstate NY is because of the economy (and weather, but you can't change weather so I won't take that into account). And with complaining about hot and heat, some people like being at the pool/beach and engaging in water activities most of the year in warmer climates, just like people enjoy skiing, snowboarding, and fall foliage in colder climates. Finally, I never said I didn't like Upstate NY or mean to truly bash it. In fact there are many aspects I like about Upstate NY (scenery, nature, laid-back, reasonable COL). My problem is that Upstate NY isn't at its potential economically and aesthetically, which to me is ironic because NY is one of the most well-educated states in the nation and is home to several prestigious universities.
Last edited by ThinkingElsewhere; 11-19-2012 at 06:40 PM..
Also, I would say that Annapolis and St. Augustine are more like Saratoga Springs or Canandaigua, given the more tourist like atmosphere and smaller size.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 11-19-2012 at 08:31 PM..
Obviously every city has it's rough areas. My point is that the number of dingy looking areas in Upstate NY cities outweigh the number of nice, quaint, well-kept areas, unlike Boston and Williamsburg. Boston, Williamsburg, St. Augustine, Annapolis probably have better funded historic and preservation societies unlike Syracuse or Albany. Maybe Upstate NY cities should invest more money in historic preservation of beautiful old houses and buildings, it would create more jobs. But I guess not!
Wiliamsburg gets millions of dollars a year in tourism so it's able to preserve its self. There are plenty of historic preservation societies in Upstate. It takes millions of dollars to fix things up to the standards you want. I find plenty of nice, quaint, and well kept areas around Upstate NY. I happen to live in one! And I've visited numerous other cities/towns/villages that are also nice. I also don't mind going to places that have some dirt and grime.
Quite a rude statement IMO. Just because a city is newer means that the architecture is boring to you and their history less interesting than Upstate NY? And the Southwest architecture, even a lot of the newer architecture, is actually based off of the Spanish-Mediterranean architecture, just like how the Northeast architecture is based off of English and Dutch architecture. So I asumme you find that type of Spanish-Mediterranean type architecture unattractive and boring, alright. Then again everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I never said Upstate NY buildings were boring, unattractive, or had no character. Many of them are just run-down. Renovation would fix that problem. But thanks for insulting the southwest.
It's rude to not like something? So I don't like Southwest architecture.. Whoopie do! Lot of people don't. Didn't say it was boring or unattractive. I just don't care for it. Didn't insult the Southwest. Just said I didn't care for that type of architecture. You certainly are the master of twisting words into something else.
I understand that you didn't like living in the south, which is fine and I'm glad you're happy to move back to Upstate NY. But please don't go around saying that all the newer developed regions and cities are boring, have no character, offering nothing good. You really think all of the sunbelt are the same? Other than warmer weather, more newer development, and being more sprawly, North Carolina and South Carolina have nothing in common with Phoenix or SoCal. Making ridiculous statements that indicate Denver isn't a good place to live because of wildfires. The only real reason why I think Colorado is presently superior to Upstate NY is because of the economy (and weather, but you can't change weather so I won't take that into account). And with complaining about hot and heat, some people like being at the pool/beach and engaging in water activities most of the year in warmer climates, just like people enjoy skiing, snowboarding, and fall foliage in colder climates. Finally, I never said I didn't like Upstate NY or mean to truly bash it. In fact there are many aspects I like about Upstate NY (scenery, nature, laid-back, reasonable COL). My problem is that Upstate NY isn't at its potential economically and aesthetically, which to me is ironic because NY is one of the most well-educated states in the nation and is home to several prestigious universities.
I didn't say the new cities are boring, don't have character, or don't offer anything good. Those are your words. Not mine! Yes, I lived in the South and didn't care for it. I have said repeatedly it works for many people and it doesn't work for many people. I know many people who were happy there and many people who were very unhappy there.
Who said NC and SC had anything in common with AZ or CA? Not me. That again would be you twisting words.
Never said Denver wasn't a good place to live. It does have a lot of wildfires. I don't care to live in an area where that's a problem. Lots of people don't want to live with that worry either.
Instead of complaining that Upstate NY isn't living up to it's potential, do something about it! Stop complaining on here and do something! Contact your legislature, run for office yourself, go to town/city/village meetings, open up a business, volunteer, there's plenty you can do in real life that would make a difference. Complaining on here isn't doing a thing to change what your complaints are.
Does he/she even live in NY to affect the change you say??
I do live in NY and I no longer do any of that stuff. I look around NY and hum Fire Water Burn by the Bloodhound gang.
For example my city tonite is voting on a 6% tax increase on top of already insane taxes. The fact they are even thinking of raising whats killed the city/state shows they have long since lost touch with reality.
Wiliamsburg gets millions of dollars a year in tourism so it's able to preserve its self. There are plenty of historic preservation societies in Upstate. It takes millions of dollars to fix things up to the standards you want. I find plenty of nice, quaint, and well kept areas around Upstate NY. I happen to live in one! And I've visited numerous other cities/towns/villages that are also nice. I also don't mind going to places that have some dirt and grime.
Goes back to the same, New York State has some of the highest taxes in the country yet they still can't afford to preserve all their old architecture, not surprised. Just because it takes money to preserve something doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. I didn't say there were no places in Upstate NY that weren't quaint and well-kept (ckhthankgod mentioned some nice places), what the problem is the number of older run-down areas outweighs the number of older well-kept areas, especially in the cities.
Sounds like New York States motto when suggestion for the better is brought up "It's too expensive to fix this or do that, even if it's for the better."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
It's rude to not like something? So I don't like Southwest architecture.. Whoopie do! Lot of people don't. Didn't say it was boring or unattractive. I just don't care for it. Didn't insult the Southwest. Just said I didn't care for that type of architecture. You certainly are the master of twisting words into something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
I have spent a lot of time in newer cities and found the architecture to be boring.
Contradicting much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
I didn't say the new cities are boring, don't have character, or don't offer anything good. Those are your words. Not mine! Yes, I lived in the South and didn't care for it. I have said repeatedly it works for many people and it doesn't work for many people. I know many people who were happy there and many people who were very unhappy there.
Who said NC and SC had anything in common with AZ or CA? Not me. That again would be you twisting words.
Sorry but many of your posts are making it sound like you're generalizing the whole sunbelt for the worst. Complaining about the hot weather in both SC and AZ (when one is humid heat and the other is dry heat which feel different), culture down south, architecture in the Southwest. It's alright not to like the sunbelt, but you painting a general bad picture for it, when past the surface all of the sunbelt is completely different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
Never said Denver wasn't a good place to live. It does have a lot of wildfires. I don't care to live in an area where that's a problem. Lots of people don't want to live with that worry either.
Almost every place is prone to natural disasters. One could say the same thing about not wanting to live in NYC/NJ now because of hurricanes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts
Instead of complaining that Upstate NY isn't living up to it's potential, do something about it! Stop complaining on here and do something! Contact your legislature, run for office yourself, go to town/city/village meetings, open up a business, volunteer, there's plenty you can do in real life that would make a difference. Complaining on here isn't doing a thing to change what your complaints are.
Did you read what I said in the post? I've worked for the state, had a friend that worked in NYS economic policy, had friends who tried to start business..so you can't say I haven't done anything about it. The OP was asking why NY population growth has been slow and I'm stating (possibly) why, not complaining. Sorry, but I'm not going to be in denial about the reasons why nor sugarcoat it.
Last edited by ThinkingElsewhere; 11-20-2012 at 09:22 PM..
People have to keep in mind that the OP compared NY to CA, TX and FL. For 2 of those states, the aspect of illegal immigration in comparison has to be considered. Taxes are just as bad in CA and property taxes in much of TX are on par with Upstate NY. FL is full of Northeastern and Midwestern retirees, which has helped that state's population growth. Again, overall COL is on par with Upstate NY, give or take, depending on the areas you compare. You also have the fact that all of the metros, with a few exceptions between those 3 states, are self contained, while the NYC metro pretty much spills over into 3 or 4 states. So, just on those factors alone, there is going to be a difference in population growth when comparing NY to those 3 states.
Also, when people say "old cities" it is in terms of time of development and not necessarily the age of the city. You also have to factor in lack of annexation, urban renewal and suburbanization/sprawl and its effects when looking at cities/areas in each of the states mentioned.
People have to keep in mind that the OP compared NY to CA, TX and FL. For 2 of those states, the aspect of illegal immigration in comparison has to be considered. Taxes are just as bad in CA and property taxes in much of TX are on par with Upstate NY. FL is full of Northeastern and Midwestern retirees, which has helped that state's population growth. Again, overall COL is on par with Upstate NY, give or take, depending on the areas you compare. You also have the fact that all of the metros, with a few exceptions between those 3 states, are self contained, while the NYC metro pretty much spills over into 3 or 4 states. So, just on those factors alone, there is going to be a difference in population growth when comparing NY to those 3 states.
Also, when people say "old cities" it is in terms of time of development and not necessarily the age of the city. You also have to factor in lack of annexation, urban renewal and suburbanization/sprawl and its effects when looking at cities/areas in each of the states mentioned.
Illegal immigration numbers aren't accounted for in population statistics, so it's not going to matter. The OP meant that according to population statistics, NY growth is slow compared to other states. I don't think most of the posters were thinking of CA and FL (although TX probably), but rather states that are all of the sudden experiencing recent booms such as NC, OR, and CO. Many of the cities in Upstate NY have been losing population, and as another poster stated most of that population is not going from the city to suburb otherwise we'd see a big population increase in the local counties. Downstate NY has mostly been loosing population because of ridiculously high COL, lack of adequate space, and fast-pace lifestyle. The reason I've observed why many downstaters haven't relocated Upstate is because they can't take the cold weather, cloudy days, and prefer to be near a beach (which is why they often choose FL and more recently NC).
Illegal immigration numbers aren't accounted for in population statistics, so it's not going to matter. The OP meant that according to population statistics, NY growth is slow compared to other states. I don't think most of the posters were thinking of CA and FL (although TX probably), but rather states that are all of the sudden experiencing recent booms such as NC, OR, and CO. Many of the cities in Upstate NY have been losing population, and as another poster stated most of that population is not going from the city to suburb otherwise we'd see a big population increase in the local counties. Downstate NY has mostly been loosing population because of ridiculously high COL, lack of adequate space, and fast-pace lifestyle. The reason I've observed why many downstaters haven't relocated Upstate is because they can't take the cold weather, cloudy days, and prefer to be near a beach (which is why they often choose FL and more recently NC).
Actually, the last census has shown a reversal of trends in parts of Upstate NY and Downstate NY hasn't been losing people. Population estimates before the 2010 census were too generous to many Sun Belt states/areas and I don't think the OP mentioned NC, OR or CO.
This doesn't include micro areas like Plattsburgh/Clinton County and Watertown/Jefferson County that grew as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 11-20-2012 at 10:13 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
