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I don't think the latter part is the case, at least on my part. What I think people may be getting at is that there has to be a con to these pros to the system in the South. In a way, in a state like VA, the difference is just in how the government gets their money. So, there may not be much of a difference, if at all. For instance, VA may have lower real property tax rates/prices than NY, but they have a yearly vehicle tax that NY doesn't and home prices may be higher in VA if you compare it to Upstate NY. So, you pay for "it" one way or another.
VA definitely gets their tax revenue. I went to Poplar Forest a few months ago and had lunch in town afterwards. Sales tax was over 11%....that's higher than Manhattan!
I certainly don't miss the personal property tax bills on my cars. Yeah, gas is cheaper in SC, but when you're spending several hundred dollars a year on the vehicle tax it doesn't really come out to be cheaper.
Right, and that's exactly my point. And that's why I think the historic development of NY hurts it today. You got the behemoth NYC, and then the second largest city is Buffalo- a city clear on the other side of the state, literally 400 miles away and 6+ hours from NYC. A city with a smaller population than 2 Brooklyn neighborhoods. The borough of Brooklyn has more than double the number of people than the entire metropolitan area of Buffalo. Think about that- and therein, I believe, lies a major problem for NY in 2012.
Couple that with the fact that Buffalo is shrinking, and all of the Erie Canal cities are shrinking, its pretty clear that in this age when cities like Denver and Raleigh are booming, NYS is missing out on this. Especially when you have boroughs of NYC with neighborhoods that have a higher population than entire upstate metropolitan areas.
Buffalo has been a part of the Rust Belt and suffers the same fate as most Rust Belt cities in the Midwest.
VA definitely gets their tax revenue. I went to Poplar Forest a few months ago and had lunch in town afterwards. Sales tax was over 11%....that's higher than Manhattan!
I certainly don't miss the personal property tax bills on my cars. Yeah, gas is cheaper in SC, but when you're spending several hundred dollars a year on the vehicle tax it doesn't really come out to be cheaper.
While the govt gets its taxes one way or another, some states have populations that are more government dependent than others. Therefore, taxes paid per person will be higher. While I don't think NY is the highest state, its probably pretty high in the ranks. Here is a good tax site, and basically it shows you when you are done paying taxes for the year, if you paid them upfront:
NY is tied with NJ at 49th place. Only CT is worse. You get done paying your taxes on May 1st. That's almost half the year. By comparison, you finish paying taxes on April 3rd in SC, almost a month earlier. I don't know about you, but that is a significant difference to me.
And seriously, people have to stop equating the tax on personal property (car tax) with property taxes in northeastern states. The comparison is not even close to being equal. Car taxes are a few hundred dollars UNLESS you own a really expensive car, in which case you probably can afford it. For the average 5-10 year old car, its not much. Property taxes in NY can easily be more than the mortgage, and can easily be $500 a month. Here in NJ, $1000 a month in property taxes is not uncommon.
Buffalo has been a part of the Rust Belt and suffers the same fate as most Rust Belt cities in the Midwest.
I realize that, and if there's any state that NY is closest to, I think its Illinois. One behemoth city and several small rust belt cities upstate (in Illinois case, downstate). Both states are struggling too, especially outside their major cities.
I realize that, and if there's any state that NY is closest to, I think its Illinois. One behemoth city and several small rust belt cities upstate (in Illinois case, downstate). Both states are struggling too, especially outside their major cities.
I'd say that the difference is that Illinois cities outside of Chicago are much smaller than the major Upstate areas. Rockford is the biggest city outside of the Chicagoland area and isn't much bigger than Syracuse, but is a relatively much smaller metro. After Springfield and Peoria, there aren't any cities with over 100,000 people and those two aren't over by much. If you combine Champaign and Urbana, where the U of Illinois is located, that would be a city with over 100k. Perhaps the same would occur with Bloomington and Normal, which is where Illinois State and Illinois Wesleyan are located. There's the conglomerate of suburbs/cities on the Illinois side of the St. Louis metro too. That's pretty much it though.
While the govt gets its taxes one way or another, some states have populations that are more government dependent than others. Therefore, taxes paid per person will be higher. While I don't think NY is the highest state, its probably pretty high in the ranks. Here is a good tax site, and basically it shows you when you are done paying taxes for the year, if you paid them upfront:
Somebody on here(under a different post), gave a link to how much each state pays in taxes and how much they get back from those taxes on a federal level. It showed NY as paying a great deal of taxes, but not receiving much back since a great deal of the tax money went to support states in the south. Southern states, while not paying much in taxes, got a lot more back than they paid in. So some of the tax money that NY residents pay goes to support southern states.
I will try to find the link.
I realize that, and if there's any state that NY is closest to, I think its Illinois. One behemoth city and several small rust belt cities upstate (in Illinois case, downstate). Both states are struggling too, especially outside their major cities.
Oh please, the cities in Illinois are way, way smaller than the cities in NY, and our cities have more name recognition. Buffalo has it's own professional sports teams(and Niagara Falls for an added bonus) and every time a person goes to a restaurant or grocery store and sees a product labeled "Buffalo"(Buffalo wings. Buffalo Chicken, Spicy Buffalo Ranch etc) that is putting "Buffalo" out there. Many of the NYS cities have metros over 1 million, Illinois' are smaller.
Somebody on here(under a different post), gave a link to how much each state pays in taxes and how much they get back from those taxes on a federal level. It showed NY as paying a great deal of taxes, but not receiving much back since a great deal of the tax money went to support states in the south. Southern states, while not paying much in taxes, got a lot more back than they paid in. So some of the tax money that NY residents pay goes to support southern states.
I will try to find the link.
Exactly and I think someone is missing the point being made in terms of "property taxes". That point is that when people talk about property taxes, it usually about real or real estate property. Yes, NY is high in that regard in terms of rates, but we don't have yearly taxes on other property like vehicles as well like many other states. So, the point is that people need to consider that in terms of "property taxes" as well.
Just so we are all on the same page here, twice in this thread alone, Federal spending has been lumped together as "welfare".
So are we now ofishally lumping grandma getting a SS check in Florida with some ghetto rat in Syracuse spitting out 6 kids for an EBT card as all being on welfare??
Cause I don't think thats very fair. I for example consider SS to be a worthless system and consider anyone who relies on it to be a full on retard. But I have to pay into the stupid crap every week. I do not need that crap to retire but they will send me a check anyway, which I will give to a shelter for dogs. I will not be considered a "welfare" scab no matter how bad the libs want it to be.
You can't force someone to take something and then count it against them.
[quote=Sean®;26644491]Just so we are all on the same page here, twice in this thread alone, Federal spending has been lumped together as "welfare".
So are we now ofishally lumping grandma getting a SS check in Florida with some ghetto rat in Syracuse spitting out 6 kids for an EBT card as all being on welfare??
Cause I don't think thats very fair. I for example consider SS to be a worthless system and consider anyone who relies on it to be a full on retard. But I have to pay into the stupid crap every week. I do not need that crap to retire but they will send me a check anyway, which I will give to a shelter for dogs. I will not be considered a "welfare" scab no matter how bad the libs want it to be.
You can't force someone to take something and then count it against them
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