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Much of the manufacturing moved south due to a "Race to the bottom" condition, due to extremely low wages, lack of benefits for employees, etc etc.
It had nothing to do with "liberal", and everything to do with corporate greed. It's not helped those states much either, since they are the highest ranking in poverty across the nation.
Funny how I got a 17.5% raise when I moved to Nashville on top of not having a state income tax - yeah these low wages here are tough. You need to realize that wages are irrelevant. All that matters is purchasing power, and you'll have a lot more down south.
The strongest vote individuals can cast is with their feet. People are moving South because it offers a higher quality of life, and that difference is largely a result of the political climate.
Funny how I got a 17.5% raise when I moved to Nashville on top of not having a state income tax - yeah these low wages here are tough. You need to realize that wages are irrelevant. All that matters is purchasing power, and you'll have a lot more down south.
And, you are the exception. The stats on poverty don't lie.
Quote:
The strongest vote individuals can cast is with their feet. People are moving South because it offers a higher quality of life, and that difference is largely a result of the political climate.
Higher quality of life is subjective. Poverty states, however, are plain as day: Poverty in most southern states are high.
... Poverty states, however, are plain as day: Poverty in most southern states are high.
Poverty stats don't take into account the cost of living nor are they adjusted to reflect that single earner households (e.g. families with a stay at home moms) are more prevalent in the South. Poverty stats don't do much other than allow politicians to instill a false sense of inferiority or superiority in their constituents for their own gain. I stand by net migration as being the best measure of an area's attractiveness.
The state has long established wineries in the Finger Lakes (like 100 years or more), it also has an established wine region in Chautauqua and and up and coming one in the Niagara area. Most people from downstate never make it north of Sullivan or Ulster county and think that the rest of upstate is just a backward hellhole, and they don't know or care what exists on the other side of the Catskills.
People downstate have such a distorted and biggoted view of things upstate. I was at a meeting yesterday where some public officials from Suffolk County were talking about how they couldn't understand why Monroe County got these pedestrian safety grants over Long Island.
"There can't be that many walkable places up there, they said. What are they all doing walking from their dairy farms to school?" Another one chimed in: "It must be that they all have a dozen kids each, you know how those people are up there". So their view of a typical upstater is something out of the movie Coal Miner's daughter!
So that pretty much sums up how the vast majority of Long Islanders think of upstaters. It's why you need to stop being so passive with downstate and DEMAND that your needs be addressed and let them know that you won't be belittled or ignored any longer.
Downstate is a bully that needs a serious time out!!
I moved upstate to the Brockport area in late 2008 and lived there till 2010. So some have a certain view while others like myself have seen it firsthand.
I've found that people actually from NYC know more about upstate than Long Islanders. Many Long Islanders I come across are extremely ignorant and make extremely stupid comments on upstate.
This is a ridiculous comment. People from NYC know more about upstate than long islanders? Have you handed out scan-tron tests and quizzed each of them? Come on. Sounding a little biased? When anyone makes a comment about an area whether it's the city or upstate, I always question them if they have ever been there. If you want to be technical, depending on age, most of the people over 35 on long island were not born here including myself. Those same people tend to travel more than people in the city because they have cars whereas a lot of people in the city use mass transit including buses, taxis, and trains/subways. Most city people stay local or travel from borough to borough. So outside of westchester, when do all these people who know more about upstate, ever go there? I had to call you on that one because it obviously wasn't a true statement. A better statement would be that alot of people think syracuse, rochester, and buffalo all look the same because they are considered upstate. Alot of people no matter where they come from don't consider western new york a separate place.
I know that NYC (and especially Long Island) pays more than it's fair share, but that's not the point.
Upstate doesn't really seem all bad to me. Sure it's not what it was, but I think that Upstate NY would be no worse than another ex-industrial state like Ohio or Wisconsin if it became independent. It's not going to become as poor as West Virginia or Mississippi.
Sure there some rural areas that are pretty poor and destitute and rely on things such as prisons for employment, but there are plenty of private employers and solid middle class suburbs around the bigger cities upstate.
Honestly I really regret ever leaving the Buffalo area, it was a great place to live.
I think the main issue that was originally expressed is that upstate doesn't need NYC and would be doing just as well financially if it were their own state. I don't think that western,ny and the other upstate areas are bad places but financially it would be hurt alot without all the extra money even if the tax laws were revamped.
This is a ridiculous comment. People from NYC know more about upstate than long islanders? Have you handed out scan-tron tests and quizzed each of them? Come on. Sounding a little biased? When anyone makes a comment about an area whether it's the city or upstate, I always question them if they have ever been there. If you want to be technical, depending on age, most of the people over 35 on long island were not born here including myself. Those same people tend to travel more than people in the city because they have cars whereas a lot of people in the city use mass transit including buses, taxis, and trains/subways. Most city people stay local or travel from borough to borough. So outside of westchester, when do all these people who know more about upstate, ever go there? I had to call you on that one because it obviously wasn't a true statement. A better statement would be that alot of people think syracuse, rochester, and buffalo all look the same because they are considered upstate. Alot of people no matter where they come from don't consider western new york a separate place.
Yes from working in both NYC and Long Island, I find NYC people to be more knowledgeable about the state. I am talking about people actual from the areas. Not clueless transplants. When taking into consideration the people born and bred in NYC and Long Island, I find the people from NYC to know a lot more about the state and and find a lot less ignorant comments coming from them.
You obviously have not traveled much if you post what you have. There are many agricultural areas in NY as well as many highly educated folks up there. If NY broke off from NYC, it would thrive because it is not a Lib stithole like NYC. They are a perfect mix politically without all the wackjobs who vote Dem down there. The obvious truth is that NYC has been a cancer on the rest of the state and NY State would thrive with better policies for itself. Why do you think the auto industry moved South? Not because of the lack of good hardworking people in Upstate. These improved roads and schools? Yeah, that is proof you haven't traveled. Many roads are in need of repair across the state as well as many bad schools despite high spending per student, especially NYC public schools. Yeah, all your high taxes are really helping out there Liberal
I don't know I bother but here goes. First off, take off the George W blinders. People complained how bad Obama was in his first term but if he was so bad, why did he get re-elected? Face it, the current extreme, rightwing, teabaggers are so insane that your own party wants to move away from them. Apparently your views are with that same extreme right. Personally, I do view myself as a liberal but if I though a republican in any government race was a better choice, I would vote for him or her. Now back to the point. The auto industry was mostly in the Pontiac and Flint Michigan areas. My comments about becoming comparable to Detroit is based on a collapse. I thought you'd understand but I guess i'll have to turn down my vernacular (called English). Yes I am well traveled. Many years in the Air Force, plus time in college, as well as years as a semi-pro gambler on a few gambling circuits kept me busy and gave me opportunities to explore almost all 50 states and over 30 countries. So here's an idea, take a trip to NYC and first off realize that the city is not one place. It is made up of multiple boroughs. then head out to long island and keep going east. Western long island looks similiar to city, then it becomes suburban, and then you'll notice on the north fork of the east end which looks very agricultural with a booming wine industry. The south fork on the east end is mostly known for the Hamptons which most people know as an upscale area with the furthest point, Montauk which is known as a summer vacation spot for many (like Marthas Vineyard). Now to finalize, never throw out your extreme views and claim them as facts. I have certain views and opinions about what I think will help but I won't blame one party for the downfall of this country or state. If I were to point the finger, it wouldn't favor your party of choice. As far as the city goes, i was born there but don't get back there often. I think it's overcrowded, needs to be cleaned up, and the schools aren't what they should be considering the costs, thats why I live on the island. At the same time, i'd never make such a naive comment about how breaking away would make upstate a prosperous place. No matter what rules or laws you changed to match your views of good states like Texas, the upstate areas would still be hurt. You need major employers to help an area. why do you think Michigan was hit so hard? All those people lost their jobs, and the jobs that exist in place of them aren't cutting it. Learn buddy, learn! A person that attacks someone and blames a whole political party like you did is obviously wearing some big blinders or some rose colored beer goggles. Take them off some time and maybe reality will eventually take over your clouded mind.
Yes from working in both NYC and Long Island, I find NYC people to be more knowledgeable about the state. I am talking about people actual from the areas. Not clueless transplants. When taking into consideration the people born and bred in NYC and Long Island, I find the people from NYC to know a lot more about the state and and find a lot less ignorant comments coming from them.
I don't either think that people from NYC are more knowledgeable about Upstate NY than people from Long Island. Both people from NYC and Long Island can make generalizations and be ignorant about Upstate NY if they're not that familiar with it. My good friend who is from NYC hardly knew anything about Upstate when he came to visit me. He actually thought Buffalo was right next to Albany before looking on the map.
BTW, wasn't it former NYC mayor Ed Koch, who negatively stereotyped Upstate NY by calling them "a bunch of hicks."
Good article. I always find it refreshing how they point out that the cars are not american, who cares are my Fords even made in the USA anymore. These foreign companies have invested in the USA, created jobs and provide a good enviroment to their workers can the big 3 say that? Heck if I buy a Mazda Ford owns the bulk of it so what does it matter.
The old manufacturing centers need to realise labor is a commodity like everything else and if they want to compete they are going to have to change their way of thinking..
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