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I would add that if sun and snow are a factor, there are other places to live in the Northeast that have considerable sun and less snow, in winter. Most coastal areas receive a lot less snow and more sun that inland areas, and could actually be closer to Middletown than Rochester or Buffalo would be. Look at the southern NJ coast, southern NH/ME, and Rhode Island.
The Northeast is definitely not monolithic, it varies in weather pretty significantly from place to place even over a small area as compared to Texas. As an aside to what "many roads" posted, you might find some of those areas to be more vibrant as well.
Albany may be a happy medium in terms of being more affordable than the Bos-Wash corridor while also having less snow and more sun than other Interior Northeastern areas. It is a little more expensive than those other Interior areas, but not by that much and the average annual income is higher than the other Upstate NY areas. Ithaca may be the exception in that regard, with the Syracuse area being 3rd in Upstate NY in that regard. Northern California enjoys nation's highest salaries - The Business Journals (I'll try to find a more recent list, if possible)
Higher cost of living may be an issue with those other Northeastern areas mentioned, as would distance from family in Middletown.
I want to move to NY because I have family and because of the nightlife. I don't want to live in NYC because of COL and I rather be in a quiet safe neighborhood. I don't want to have to worry about parking every time I come home. I rather commute back and forth to have that peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
It only becomes a big deal if you let it be. There are plenty of events and other things going on during the winter, let alone the other seasons during the year. What people don't know is that an area like Denver can expect snowfall earlier and that the Albany area average a similar amount of snow in a year. So, even the winter weather factor isn't even clear cut in comparison.
City Data does say that Albany is one of the sunnier cities in New York. However, Albany gets an average of 64 inches of snow each year (according to CD), while Denver averages 57 (source: Places Rated Almanac). While it can start snowing as early as September in Denver, snow that falls in Denver doesn't stay on the ground as long as it does here in NY because of the high altitude and large number of sunny days there. The snow is drier and more powdery than here in the East, which is why Colorado (and Utah) are such popular spots for skiers.
Here is something else I found on CD about the climate in Denver: Denver's climate is semiarid and relatively mild, with more sunny days than either Miami, Florida or San Diego, California. Although visitors must make some adjustment to the high altitude, they find that the area's low humidity makes even the highest and lowest temperatures seem less extreme.
Albany does have a relatively low cost of living (compared to the NYC metro area) with a COL index of 110 (100 being the national average), compared to 108 for Denver. I'm assuming that the OP was talking about the nightlife in NYC in his statement above, and going from Albany to NYC for nightlife, even if you just did it on a weekend night, is a bit of a drive.
City Data does say that Albany is one of the sunnier cities in New York. However, Albany gets an average of 64 inches of snow each year (according to CD), while Denver averages 57 (source: Places Rated Almanac). While it can start snowing as early as September in Denver, snow that falls in Denver doesn't stay on the ground as long as it does here in NY because of the high altitude and large number of sunny days there. The snow is drier and more powdery than here in the East, which is why Colorado (and Utah) are such popular spots for skiers.
Here is something else I found on CD about the climate in Denver: Denver's climate is semiarid and relatively mild, with more sunny days than either Miami, Florida or San Diego, California. Although visitors must make some adjustment to the high altitude, they find that the area's low humidity makes even the highest and lowest temperatures seem less extreme.
Albany does have a relatively low cost of living (compared to the NYC metro area) with a COL index of 110 (100 being the national average), compared to 108 for Denver. I'm assuming that the OP was talking about the nightlife in NYC in his statement above, and going from Albany to NYC for nightlife, even if you just did it on a weekend night, is a bit of a drive.
To be fair, I think most people would rather live in Denver than Albany, given the choice and no other considerations. Denver is a growing city with amazing mountain scenery and sunny weather. However, there are other things to consider, perhaps, for someone looking in NY.
I'd personally say that the Albany metro does compare well to Denver in outdoor resources. The Front Range and Western Colorado is a desert for the most part (which is surprising to most people) and the eastern half of Colorado is mostly flat treeless grassland. Colorado is 23% forested, and NY is 65% forests, and most of that is in the eastern half of the state. The dryness that you mention in Colorado also means that it has less water. Less lakes and rivers. Eastern NY is pretty awash in lakes and rivers. Distance to the ocean could matter too. Albany, and also nearby Vermont, the Hudson Valley, the Saratoga region, and Massachusetts have pretty deep historical roots too, if that type of thing interests you (as it does me). Denver has less, or at least much different, for sure.
Also, family nearby can be hard to put a price on. All that depends on the OP's situation, of course. So, straight up I might choose Denver over Alb-Sch-Troy, but I'd say to consider everything. That said, of course, there are other options in places like Central Mass, parts of Rhode Island, and even southern NJ for affordable places, less snow, more sun, and nearby family too.
City Data does say that Albany is one of the sunnier cities in New York. However, Albany gets an average of 64 inches of snow each year (according to CD), while Denver averages 57 (source: Places Rated Almanac). While it can start snowing as early as September in Denver, snow that falls in Denver doesn't stay on the ground as long as it does here in NY because of the high altitude and large number of sunny days there. The snow is drier and more powdery than here in the East, which is why Colorado (and Utah) are such popular spots for skiers.
Here is something else I found on CD about the climate in Denver: Denver's climate is semiarid and relatively mild, with more sunny days than either Miami, Florida or San Diego, California. Although visitors must make some adjustment to the high altitude, they find that the area's low humidity makes even the highest and lowest temperatures seem less extreme.
Albany does have a relatively low cost of living (compared to the NYC metro area) with a COL index of 110 (100 being the national average), compared to 108 for Denver. I'm assuming that the OP was talking about the nightlife in NYC in his statement above, and going from Albany to NYC for nightlife, even if you just did it on a weekend night, is a bit of a drive.
To be honest, I don't think Denver is on the OP's radar given the close to family requirement alone and its isolation in relation to other cities may be a factor too.
With Albany, you can go to NYC, Boston, Montreal, some nice smaller communities, 3 sets of mountains and other outdoor amenities within a few hours and the OP is still close to family. A-S-T-SS has some nightlife with a last call at 4 AM. So, there are some things to do in that area.
Great post. It is amazing how some will lie and say the COL is higher in Denver than in Albany. I have always enjoy reading your post and your information certainly reflect your true experience. Keep up with the good work!
Thank you for your kind words.
Without getting into any pissing matches, I think people strongly underestimate the actual cost of property taxes in NY, and all Northeastern states for that matter, compared to elsewhere. Its not hard to rack up $6k in yearly taxes for even an old drafty house. That's $500 a month. That's a Mercedes payment for someone elsewhere. Its very hard to offset this. Most COL calculators do not factor this in, either.
On the flip side, you do tend to get better services. However, these are sometimes services that people don't want but have to pay for anyway. I will say that as I've been looking at homes in the Saratoga and Warren County areas, they do have competitive taxes. Much, much lower than NJ and significantly lower than Onondaga and Monroe Counties. Saratoga is the lowest taxed county in NYS. Its still not impossible to find a $150k house with only $2k in property taxes, but getting harder. I have noticed that some rates in some towns have increased a lot, though. Glens Falls has gone up significantly with the improvement of its downtown.
Without getting into any pissing matches, I think people strongly underestimate the actual cost of property taxes in NY, and all Northeastern states for that matter, compared to elsewhere. Its not hard to rack up $6k in yearly taxes for even an old drafty house. That's $500 a month. That's a Mercedes payment for someone elsewhere. Its very hard to offset this. Most COL calculators do not factor this in, either.
On the flip side, you do tend to get better services. However, these are sometimes services that people don't want but have to pay for anyway. I will say that as I've been looking at homes in the Saratoga and Warren County areas, they do have competitive taxes. Much, much lower than NJ and significantly lower than Onondaga and Monroe Counties. Saratoga is the lowest taxed county in NYS. Its still not impossible to find a $150k house with only $2k in property taxes, but getting harder. I have noticed that some rates in some towns have increased a lot, though. Glens Falls has gone up significantly with the improvement of its downtown.
That may be based on property tax rates, but homes are priced higher in Saratoga and Warren counties versus Onondaga and Monroe counties, on average.
I also think that people underestimate things such as overall COL, as many home in on one aspect or don't take the percentage of aspects in terms of cost of living. You are paying someone either way, whether it is the government or the banks. It doesn't hurt to know if there are other aspects that can help or could add up, whether it is tax exemptions or other taxes/fees. With this said, it appears that the OP is looking to rent and get something at least decent in the 800-1000 range/area.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-05-2014 at 04:26 PM..
That may be based on property tax rates, but homes are priced higher in Saratoga and Warren counties versus Onondaga and Monroe counties, on average.
I also think that people underestimate things such as overall COL, as many home in on one aspect or don't take the percentage of aspects in terms of cost of living. You are paying someone either way, whether it is the government or the banks. It doesn't hurt to know if there are other aspects that can help or could add up, whether it is tax exemptions or other taxes/fees.
Not necessarily. Some places, like my lovely state, are corrupt and do not spend money efficiently. So people are overtaxed but get nothing in return. Or the money leaves your town and goes into the various cesspools around the state where it wasted or lost into someones pocket.
When I lived in North Carolina, everything was clean and manicured. I've never seen such a well planned area. I can't speak to the state's actual efficiency in government, but whether they consolidated services or had better laws with regard to their affairs, it worked. They just did things right in that area, governmentally at least.
I've also spent time in Denver on several occasions, and you can definitely live cheap there. You don't need to buy anything near the median home price to live very comfortably in the suburbs. Its another state that seems headed in the right direction, with regard to being very clean, prosperous looking, and basically having less legacy costs. It shows.
Not necessarily. Some places, like my lovely state, are corrupt and do not spend money efficiently. So people are overtaxed but get nothing in return. Or the money leaves your town and goes into the various cesspools around the state where it wasted or lost into someones pocket.
When I lived in North Carolina, everything was clean and manicured. I've never seen such a well planned area. I can't speak to the state's actual efficiency in government, but whether they consolidated services or had better laws with regard to their affairs, it worked. They just did things right in that area, governmentally at least.
I've also spent time in Denver on several occasions, and you can definitely live cheap there. You don't need to buy anything near the median home price to live very comfortably in the suburbs. Its another state that seems headed in the right direction, with regard to being very clean, prosperous looking, and basically having less legacy costs. It shows.
You don't have to buy at the median here to get something decent as well.
My point is that the higher cost will be either taxes or home price. Hence, the comment about paying to the government or the banks.
NC has issues in regards to teachers in terms of pay, for an example. It is 45th in that regard and governments invest in certain things/areas accordingly or based on what they are willing to invest in. Not every area in NC is like Raleigh and areas will vary in terms of looks there as well. BTW- One of my sisters lives in Charlotte's University City neighborhood.
To bring this thread back to the OP's needs, there are areas in NY that will fit, NewJourney. It will be a matter of what you want and can find for employment.
Not necessarily. Some places, like my lovely state, are corrupt and do not spend money efficiently. So people are overtaxed but get nothing in return. Or the money leaves your town and goes into the various cesspools around the state where it wasted or lost into someones pocket.
When I lived in North Carolina, everything was clean and manicured. I've never seen such a well planned area. I can't speak to the state's actual efficiency in government, but whether they consolidated services or had better laws with regard to their affairs, it worked. They just did things right in that area, governmentally at least.
I've also spent time in Denver on several occasions, and you can definitely live cheap there. You don't need to buy anything near the median home price to live very comfortably in the suburbs. Its another state that seems headed in the right direction, with regard to being very clean, prosperous looking, and basically having less legacy costs. It shows.
There are people that pay their dues and are fully aware of the high COL in NY. Unfortunately there are some unaware of the cost because they are either enjoy getting handouts or are disconnected with the realities. Talking about corruption and spending money wastefully, the superintendent gets pay more than $260,000 in the town of Pittsford NY. No wonder people are paying more than $40,000 a year in property taxes for their million dollar home in Pittsford.
Your COL posts are in line with what we are experiencing as real estate investors. I am impressed with your knowledge in different parts of the country including VA, NJ, PA, Ma,...etc and it truly reflect your intelligent as well as experience. I like how you can relate your information with real life number in simple math whereas someone just keeps posting random website links. Please keep up with the good work and continue to share your valuable information. Take care!
On top of the high property taxes, the real estate price tend to go down in Update NY especially if you own houses worth more than half a million dollar. You can buy another house with the high property taxes you pay in NY within 30 years and you don't get your taxes back.
Last edited by superleggera; 03-05-2014 at 06:54 PM..
He has families in Middletown and anyone can go to the supermarket to pickup a rental guide or provide a Google link like you always do. If OP is used to the lower property taxes as well as no income tax, he will not like Upstate NY. I need more information from OP to give him my personal suggestion instead of blindly assume NY is the only place for him.
Again, if you have real life experience outside of NY then you will agree with VintageSunlight. Can you provide the same mathematics calculation as him? Do you own another real estate in Texas? We appreciated your help but I think most people here are looking for unbiased as well as genuine information.
There is information in the first post and in later posts by the OP that you can go by. This is about the OP, not anyone else. Ironically, the OP was looking in CT. So, that should give an indication that proximity to family is important. That's why actually reading the original post or posts by the OP are important.
If anything NewJourney, again, for the rental range you are use to, other areas a little bit further Upstate would work. You could find something in/around Middletown too.
BTW-NewJourney is a "she".
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