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20% is not good in 3 years. It was a new build, no renovations. It's not good because other areas went up more than that. Equity from a house is not real money. It's money used to buy another house. If bob and jim buy houses for $100k and jim's triples in 5 years and bob's goes up 50%, comparably Bob is now in a bad spot if he needs to move to a different market.
You shouldn't get any more mad at sellers than at buyers. Buyers are being greedy offering significantly less just as much as sellers are by not selling. Neither side is right. If it was that important for the buyer to get a house, he'd offer more. Alternatively if a seller wanted one, he'd settle for less. We got an offer on our house which was below other houses in the area, including one on our street that just went for much more. We declined. If the buyer does not make a new offer, they're free to continue house shopping, no great loss to us. A person can spend all day reading on CNN about how it's a buyer's market, but that is not going to change the mind of a seller who feels that it's not worth it to them to get out of it unless they can get a certain amount of money back.
Silly is that sellers may be looking for continued high prices on their homes but that's no sillier than a buyer who thinks they can buy a house now for what it was costing 18 months ago. The market is weak, not dead, and that's unrealistic on the part of the buyer.
You have good points, JustSayNo, and yes it's happenning throughout the entire country because people are inherently impulsive and cannot stand the idea of waiting, so everything is done on credit with vast mortgages and no equity.
When it all comes down to it, though, if a buyer wants a particular house, they need to offer what the seller will take for it. That number is its market value. Also, there are vast differences throughout the entire US. Parts of some states have dropped a lot in the past year while others have continued to rise.
The only thing that you are right about is the stailmate that is going on the market right now. but you are wrong on the reasoning. Sellers are looking at COMPS from last year and cant get over the fact that it is over in this area. I personally love the fact that sellers are being greedy and maybe some buyers too because I will just hang in there for another year or two until sellers see no other alternative but to take a "real" loss. How quickly people have forgotten the sucsessive years following the 1986 collapse of the RE market. Do you remember the forclosures out there? well, lets see this time next year when those same sellers that are crying about loosing
50K and not pulling out while they still can make some money on thier home. those same sellers may forclose and loose far more than they are going to right now. I don't feel sorry in the least bit. If fact I look forward to it. For those who laughed right to the bank in 06. Good for you, you made a good call. for those who stuck around for another killer year welp, good for me
message to buyers... its simple don't buy yet. be patient, good things will come.
message to sellers out there.... PLEEEEEEEASE don't sell at any cost... Keep driving the direction that the market is going in. i'll see you this time next year and we can renegotiate
justsayno and jwilliams I may of confused the two of you a couple of posts ago but I see the similarities and why the confusion....
to you I say again:
May I ask you why you feel that the person who bought your home is obligated to pay for YOUR living expences while you were in the home? you mentioned heat, mainenance, electicity utilities ect.... DO YOU REALIZE HOW REDICULOUSE THAT SOUNDS?
Hey since its a buyers market now, perhaps I should negotiate my living expences with the sellers. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Hi, can i just say that I had my house for sale over the summer. I was not looking to make a killing just to get what the house was appraised for. The real estate was a joke, she brought one person in 3 months and that person she said liked the house, but wanted us to go down 10,000 dollars on the price, we were willing to go down about 7,000. She was suppose to meet with the person again, when i did not hear from her for two weeks, I called her she said the person had not called her when i asked if she called her she said no. I just wanted to add this because amongst so many other problems we had with the real estate, please both buyers and sellers should check out these real estates, because they can and do cause a lot of heartache. It is not just the sellers being selfish, or the buyers not paying for homes that may be over priced, sometimes it is who represents you.
EXCELLENT point! For the most part I find the agents became VERY complacent and lazy during the boom in the last 10 years. Houses sold themselves, they just handed out keys and got commissions (at leat in my old area). Now they find that they have to work, they have to market, they have to pound the pavement to earn their money-and a lot just don't know how/don't want to do that! I am sorry you had a bad experience, I do hope things worked out for you. I always look at it this way-when something is wrong or is difficult, we can learn from it, get smarter, and do better next time! We can learn from everything, good and bad, so in the end....it's all good
Hi, can i just say that I had my house for sale over the summer. I was not looking to make a killing just to get what the house was appraised for. The real estate was a joke, she brought one person in 3 months and that person she said liked the house, but wanted us to go down 10,000 dollars on the price, we were willing to go down about 7,000. She was suppose to meet with the person again, when i did not hear from her for two weeks, I called her she said the person had not called her when i asked if she called her she said no. I just wanted to add this because amongst so many other problems we had with the real estate, please both buyers and sellers should check out these real estates, because they can and do cause a lot of heartache. It is not just the sellers being selfish, or the buyers not paying for homes that may be over priced, sometimes it is who represents you.
you are right... RE agents simply did not need to work hard the past 10 years to sell a home... they were doing well to say the least so following up a simple phone call was not needed because there were other stupid buyers right there willing to spend more than your asking price. Don't worry, just like the RE market is due for an adjustment so too will RE agents. they will soon remember the harder times of selling a home and getting that commition will again be few far and in between. Personally I went through about 7 realtors who just did not want to stick around as they knew that I was inteligent about things. Most still said whatever they could to try to get you to sign on the dotted line. especially going as low as playing your emotions. But all that is a thing of the past for 5 years or so.
House-Hunter, Please relax! I think you misunderstand. I am not asking anyone to pay for my living expenses. Go back and read the post. I was calculating a FORMULA for a true profit/loss/breakeven point. I wrote it for ALL sellers to think realisticly on the investment. Like a mutual fund, you must calculate the fee you paid to buy a share, the management fee the fund charges every year, the custodial fee on your retirement account, the fee to sell the shares BEFORE you determine your investment return. Same with a house.Living expenses vary throughout the country. To determine a TRUE profit/loss one should factor in all the numbers in the equation, not just buy price/sell price. That is all I am saying. People tend to just look at two numbers, forgetting about paying off the current mortgage (and in many cases second mortage), taking out all the mortgage interst they paid, the property taxes they paid, the upgrade cost they spent, the landscaper they paid because they were too lazy to mow themselves (lol), etc. The formula was not for the BUYER, the formula is for the SELLER so they can calculate a TRUE number when all is said and done!
Don't be mad at people who sold their homes and moved on. They are entitled to be happy or disappointed, just like a buyer is entitled to. I hopr that clears things up and you no longer see me as rediculous, which is silly in itself since I contributed to a thread which has no impact on me as I was trying to add perspective and a view from the seller side to help.
As JWilliams said "It is, simply, IMPOSSIBLE to predict the housing market."
And I agree. Nobody predicted the drastic rise in prices after 9/11. You can't compare times now with the 70's, 80's and 90's because were living in a different time now. I don't think it's appropriate to say it's a buyers market completely, there's a lot more to it then that. Certain type houses are still in demand, Ranches sell quickly (appeals to both empty nesters and first time homebuyers) Owners will get close to asking price still on Long Island. Two in my neighborhood sold at asking price in 6 weeks. "Location Location Location" still is the one thing in real estate that will always remain constant.
part of the reason for the price hike after 9/11 is the feds trying to boost the economy after the tragedy. rightfully so and I'm glad they did that (lowering interest rates to all time lows to keep homes selling) real estate was the only thing "happening" after 9/11 and the crash of tech stocks (remember that the feds pumped billions of $$$ into the stock market to try and stabilize it and I would say that they succeded). what else were they going to do? the only problem they droped interest rates a bit too low and the market went into fast gear for a bit too long. we have not seen the real estate market crash yet (it has slowed) but it may crash with the current economic situation. we will see in 07-08...
House-Hunter, Please relax! I think you misunderstand. I am not asking anyone to pay for my living expenses. Go back and read the post. I was calculating a FORMULA for a true profit/loss/breakeven point. I wrote it for ALL sellers to think realisticly on the investment. Like a mutual fund, you must calculate the fee you paid to buy a share, the management fee the fund charges every year, the custodial fee on your retirement account, the fee to sell the shares BEFORE you determine your investment return. Same with a house.Living expenses vary throughout the country. To determine a TRUE profit/loss one should factor in all the numbers in the equation, not just buy price/sell price. That is all I am saying. People tend to just look at two numbers, forgetting about paying off the current mortgage (and in many cases second mortage), taking out all the mortgage interst they paid, the property taxes they paid, the upgrade cost they spent, the landscaper they paid because they were too lazy to mow themselves (lol), etc. The formula was not for the BUYER, the formula is for the SELLER so they can calculate a TRUE number when all is said and done!
Don't be mad at people who sold their homes and moved on. They are entitled to be happy or disappointed, just like a buyer is entitled to. I hopr that clears things up and you no longer see me as rediculous, which is silly in itself since I contributed to a thread which has no impact on me as I was trying to add perspective and a view from the seller side to help.
Peace
thanks for the clarification. I do appreciate your contribution and more so your honesty. man I almost had to take a pill
House-Hunter, Please relax! I think you misunderstand. I am not asking anyone to pay for my living expenses. Go back and read the post. I was calculating a FORMULA for a true profit/loss/breakeven point. I wrote it for ALL sellers to think realisticly on the investment. Like a mutual fund, you must calculate the fee you paid to buy a share, the management fee the fund charges every year, the custodial fee on your retirement account, the fee to sell the shares BEFORE you determine your investment return. Same with a house.Living expenses vary throughout the country. To determine a TRUE profit/loss one should factor in all the numbers in the equation, not just buy price/sell price. That is all I am saying. People tend to just look at two numbers, forgetting about paying off the current mortgage (and in many cases second mortage), taking out all the mortgage interst they paid, the property taxes they paid, the upgrade cost they spent, the landscaper they paid because they were too lazy to mow themselves (lol), etc. The formula was not for the BUYER, the formula is for the SELLER so they can calculate a TRUE number when all is said and done!
Don't be mad at people who sold their homes and moved on. They are entitled to be happy or disappointed, just like a buyer is entitled to. I hopr that clears things up and you no longer see me as rediculous, which is silly in itself since I contributed to a thread which has no impact on me as I was trying to add perspective and a view from the seller side to help.
Peace
JSN,
Thank you for your insight; I have been reading the previous 8 pages of this thread and there has been some insightful observations and succinct clarifications- and thanks to House Hunter too.
We are in the process of relocating to NY and was obviously anticipating the exagerated COL. Westchester and LI (Suffolk) were the two areas that I initally pinpointed and targeted, but LI has emerged in terms of overall value. Property taxes are high for both but Westchester, is astonomical; Some areas 18K-25K.
Huntington is on our short list. Where would you suggest?
What about Port Jefferson, Oyster Bay, Melville, Northport?
I personally think this is an outstanding time to buy, buyers can be somewhat choosers and sellers are of the mindset to sell-otherwise they would not be listing their homes. Speculators are having to pay their primary home mortgage and are having to crack their extra nut(s) every month their "investment" does not move. House Hunter is correct, this is only the begining. The cracks are begining to emerge as a result of speculative overzealousness and mounting consumer debt. There are alot of folks right now "babyboomers" with an enormous amount of equity purchasing power sitting on the sidelines waiting to jump in. ROCK ON HOUSE HUNTER!
I am having to make a decision here in the next two months as I transition from Texas to NY.
If there is anyone out there contemplating a move to San Antonio I've got a sweet pad to offer for a teriffic price. Oh, and a 93 acre ranch too. I'll do a package deal for 500K.
baktuny, an early welcom back to NY goes out to you... but wait... you have a 93 acre ranch and want to give it all up for the rat race of LI??? Ok but if I were you Id stay in Texas.
I have been doing some thinking about what justsayno and jwilliams have been saying and although they bring up some very good points... I have to continue to say with full conviction that many many sellers out there are just too greedy. I'm sorry but to say that a seller is entitled to making back utility fees, houshold maintenance fees, and even mortgage, insurance or interest is beyond my comprehention. Folks.... this is called a "FLIP". these sellers are not flipping in the true meaning of the word. A flip is when you buy a home calculate how much moneyt and time it will take you to IMPROVE the property add in the mortgage, insurance, utility fees and try and sell for a profit. the key word there folks is IMPROVE... that means put money time and effort in rehabing the property. These sellers are not doing this today. They are still trying to reep the rewards of an overvalued aout of controle market that ended last year. It just burns me when I hear sob stories of sellers who cry about all the money that they lostby not selling on time. don't get me wrong I find nothing wrong with flipping a property for profit. If that is you put in money time and effort into IMPROVING the property from what bought it at. I also don't have any problem if you purchased a property and sat on it for 10 years and did nothing at all to it and expect a profit BUT to expect 20% return in three or returns like we saw last year or returns that cover Mortgage, utility, ins ect is just simply called GREED IMHO.
I am an Architect and my plans are to get into a home that is fairly valued so I may have the opportunity to rehab and improve and hopefully put on an addition so that i can sell it in 5-7 to 10 years for a profit. Since I plan to put in my own money and sweat equity and hard work, not to mention my expierience of design and construction knowlege... I do expect and hope to get a profit out of it. What I hope is about 15% return for doing all of the construction management and 10% for doing all of the architectural design plans. Thats it.... If the market works in my favor that I can hope to get a bit more but to even consider all other fees IS ridiculouse unless I was flipping a home in 6-8 weeks. People who flif do it solely for the money and all too often without a care for the neigborhood and the folks who move into the home. this is why our neighborhoods look the way that they do. Its called lack of pride in home ownership. The other reason is also the fact that Realtors, the feds and everyone in the industry who has to gain has driven this market to the point that no one can afford to beutify their homes. They can barely pay thier taxes. there is something really wrong there and "THEY" don't want you to stop and think about it... They just love watchin us contribute to the rat race. Until there are more folks who stop and see that we are heading into an eventual market collapse and the rat race continues. So all I'm saying is... If you put on an addition or IMPROVER your property in a way that warrents a return on that investment than you should expect to get that return but to want a buyer to pay for your living expences while you lived at the property is just beyond me. What else do you want? perhaps a refund on your grocery bill or how about your cable or electric & heat. Come on!
I dun-no is anyone with me on this? anyway got to get back to work its beyond late.
To answer your previous thread, if it were not for an awesome professional opportunity with a tremendous amount of potential and $, we would not be returning. We lived in Brooklyn (Windsor Terrace) ten years ago, raised three young kids there and were wedged out of our $650 per month apt. when the owners son graduated from college and wanted to return home; We could not find comparable accomodations for less than $1300. per mo. So we split.
It was the best thing that we could have done at the time. I was a struggling fine artist and high-rise window washer. NY wore me out.
We came back to San Antonio, where I was born, worked hard, bought a 50's ranch style home, I renovated it myself, paid it off in five years, bought some property with the intention of building a cool prefab weekend pad; We will have the ranch paid off next month.
My point is, our society preaches the instant gratification mantra: Our kids expect everything to be handed to them without question. No one wants to work hard anymore. No, forget that! No one wants to work period. The government jacks with our economy by fueling the housing sector with historically low interest rates (everyone jumps in); The greed sets in. The mortgage industry stokes the fires by offering exotic lending vehicles.
Frenzy ensues, the economy is humming along, trillions of dollars in debt, our government fixes our gaze on our healthy war-time economy all the while neglecting our president's woeful and inflexible middle east plan for freedom.
We have seen nothing yet!
We live in a warm cozy cocoon, frittering away money that we don't have, cry when people, and other nations do not accept what we offer them (at a fair price of course) and then wonder why the hell life is such a a friggin' mess.
House Hunter, you sit tight, build up your equity and pounce like a jaguar on that innocent little antelope on .32 acres on LI. I will bring you a Texas sized BBQ pit as a house warming gift.
Bon Appetit!
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